CHed Evans

[is there justice?]

Very much in the news, it's worth looking at his website, particularly the CCTV footage of the 'extremely drunk' complainant and also her tweets. There are some lessons to take heed of as reminders of what most of us already know.
http://www.chedevans.com

[Rights Fighter]

I posted on here some time ago about "personal responsibility" about ladies who drink too much and behave in a certain way that gives the wrong impression.

I ended up with a complaint against me on this forum (from somebody who I thought had been a friend for many years AND I had tried to help her husband who said he had been falsely accused and I had gone out of my way to try to help him).

I posted on this forum about personal responsibility because I have been one of those ladies who had far too much to drink and then misbehaved - more than once. I had no idea what happened until I woke up in the morning and thought "who the hell are you? Pi** off!" The "friend" complained about my post.

I would no more blame the man involved than I would stick pins in my eyes.

If I had woken up bruised and bleeding then that might have been a different matter.

When I stopped drinking heavily and stopped flirting with blokes when I was pis*ed then me waking up with somebody I would never have entertained when sober, would never have happened.

This is not about us woman being babied and blaming everybody else in sight as WaR feminazis might suggest.. It's about personal responsibility.

[frightened spouse]

I posted on here some time ago about "personal responsibility" about ladies who drink too much and behave in a certain way that gives the wrong impression.

I ended up with a complaint against me on this forum (from somebody who I thought had been a friend for many years AND I had tried to help her husband who said he had been falsely accused and I had gone out of my way to try to help him).

I posted on this forum about personal responsibility because I have been one of those ladies who had far too much to drink and then misbehaved - more than once. I had no idea what happened until I woke up in the morning and thought "who the hell are you? Pi** off!" The "friend" complained about my post.

I would no more blame the man involved than I would stick pins in my eyes.

If I had woken up bruised and bleeding then that might have been a different matter.

When I stopped drinking heavily and stopped flirting with blokes when I was pis*ed then me waking up with somebody I would never have entertained when sober, would never have happened.

This is not about us woman being babied and blaming everybody else in sight as WaR feminazis might suggest.. It's about personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is now very unfashionable, more's the pity.

From what I have read about the Evans case he behaved very badly but criminally - I'm not sure.

[is there justice?]

I'm not even sure that comes into it. On the CCTV the complainant was more than capable of walking unaided and indeed even walked out alone to pick up the pizza off the pavement when one of the men had put it down to try and stop the taxi in case her handbag was in it. This she did without losing her balance. As usual fb and tweets had been lost and other important things weren't allowed.

[whatsgoingon?]

I followed the Ched Evans case from when he was charged, not very elegant behaviour for sure, but as RF has aptly pointed out the girl had a part of responsibility in what happened . Once the ball got rolling, it seems the biggest mistake he made was his choice of legal team - I believe he chose his business lawyer....

It can't be stressed enough....... if facing charges based on false accustions - GET A SPECIALIST SOLICITOR WHO KNOWS THEIR STUFF!

[fatherof3]

For as long as Ched Evans remains a convicted rapist, we are all at liberty to say almost anything we like about him without fear of a legal challenge. But nobody is allowed to say much at all about his co-accused Clayton McDonald.

The fact is that there were two guys in a room with a woman who, without any supporting evidence, was said to be incapable of making a rational decision about whether or not to engage in sexual intercourse. One of the guys had met her for the first time about 15 minutes earlier, and the other had met her only seconds before sexual intercourse with both guys took place. The former was acquitted of rape, and the latter was sent down for five years. What a difference 15 minutes can make. The woman concerned never made a complaint, and neither guy denied having taken advantage of her obvious readiness for sex.

Two professional footballers lives' have been wrecked, and according to her father so has the life of an innocent woman. In my opinion, they are all three the victims of some kind of police/CPS cock-up.

[lawlessone2009]

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-...-chedwyn-evans

Appeal...

I've been involved in a dreaded FB thread today regarding Mr Evans.

There are two distinctly different views and I attempted to take the middle ground. Whether I succeeded or not is neither here nor there...

I cannot accept that a woman, through drink, should be raped or subjected to any form of sexual assault.


I have arrived at a deep crossroads in my thinking. Mr Evans acted absolutely terribly but I still believe there has been a terrible slip in the justice system.

It is perfectly fine to judge the drunkness and so 'capacity' of a woman to consent to sex and yet absolutely NO judgement on the capacity of the men to understand what the woman is saying or what her intentions are. Even IF there is a direct question along the lines of 'do you want to have sex with me' there appears, in this case, to be a 'I was too pissed to consent' argument. How is a pissed male supposed to be able to understand that a woman is too pissed to consent?

That is the problem I am attempting to figure out. That is the problem that should really have been argued at trial. I am not saying that it is in any way a defence but someone somewhere at sometime needs to put forward that two parties being pissed as farts (Helga hits near it!) and having sex could surely BOTH be subjecting each other to rape... It appears that the MAN is the guilty party though!

Please, don't slaughter me or accuse me of supporting rapists. I don't, I am merely putting forward a 'thought' about a wider issue which surely has many different answers.

What I see as far as Mr Evans is concerned is a group of idiotic and immature boys egging each other on and taking advantage of a female. Whether that female is willing or not does not excuse the behaviour that has been demonstrated. Are they guilty of rape? One isn't and one is. Whether that conviction will stand is subject to appeal (at CCRC at present I understand) and until that process is exhausted Mr Evans is still a convicted rapist.

The appeal will be incredibly difficult which is why every single person on here MUST seek out proper and experienced representation. There are many arguments over whether defence solicitors are 'getting rapist off' but in reality they are merely doing their job. Pick the RIGHT one for the job!

If a defence solicitor manages to get a guilty person off with a crime it is because the prosecution haven't done their job correctly. There is much advertising of the fact that prosecutors in sexual offence cases are specially trained and highly experienced, if a defence solicitor is able to defend against that then either the person is innocent or the prosecutor training measurements aren't reflecting their true state of knowledge.

Further, and I know it isn't pleasant, it has to be accepted that many guilty people escape justice. The argument here is that it is better ten guilty people escape justice than one innocent person goes to jail.

I have to say, as an innocent person falsely accused of one of the most sickening of crimes, that I haven't escaped anything! I often think that it would be truly marvellous to have been one of those guilty folk that escaped justice. I wouldn't have to face the daily suicidal thoughts, the complete mental, and too some degree physical, breakdown, the continuous questioning of why the hell the 'state' did what they did without actually looking at the evidence, the lack of interest, the stripping of apathy and empathy, the depression, the hatred, the underlying and simmering anger, the mood swings, lack of belief in worth, alienation from society, isolation from society as a protective shield............

It goes on... I didn't escape justice and I wasn't even guilty! I had the full force of justice thrust in my bloody face and I was innocent.

Maybe Mr Evans is innocent or maybe he's just a self important wanker. Whatever he is, he's served his time and we should let him get on with his life.

[Dave]

Hit the nail on the head there chum, a well though out post.

I see you are suffering too, its a funny old world.

[Rights Fighter]

As LL1 says if both parties are pissed who is to say who came on to whom?

Even if the male is not drunk - at present it seems that the complainant can say what he or she likes after a consensual event, merely because they don't remember.

They can give consent at the beginning in writing, in triplicate, but then claim that at the last minute they backed out and asked the alleged perpetrator to stop. That's a bit difficult if it's a male half way through ejaculation.

This brings to mind a story I read in one of the gutter press rags (possibly News of the World). I know it was centrefold. The accused was a famous snooker player. She was a stranger to him and vice versa. Met him in a hotel bar, went willingly upstairs to his room with him, admitted snogging on the couch, admitted to stripping (herself) naked and lying on the floor, admitted consensual consensual activity on the floor, and consensual sex, then claimed she wanted it to stop and he didn't.

If he is about to "cum"/ejaculate then it's a bit unfair to take him that far and then expect him to stop (not as in using withdrawal method of contraception) - but stop full stop. As it stands, at the moment if somebody demands they stop, and they then ejaculate, that is all part of the alleged rape allegation - hence DNA. It's a physical process that cannot be stopped, like breathing.......unless being asphyxiated.........

Sorry, but if that was me doing all the running, as she was in the 'snooker story', and then HE decided to get off/stop what he was doing half way through, I would be very disgruntled!!!!

[fatherof3]

I am in total sympathy with everything lawlessone said, and I really hope he will manage to keep himself alive and sane.

Here are some further thoughts of my own...

1. Because non-violent rape frequently boils down to a question of 'who should be believed', there is always going to be an element of chance in any jury's verdict.
2. As a result, there is a need for the justice system to come up with a more and more precise definition of whether or not a crime has taken place.
3. As a result, rape has become almost a technical offence, with no consideration allowed of the circumstances in which the 'offence' took place.
4. The word 'yes' has become the equivalent of a green traffic light, whilst the word 'no' is the same as a red traffic light. But as we all know, sometimes traffic lights break down, or their sequencing becomes confused, and we have to make our own judgments at the time.
5. The sexual drive of young people is as powerful as anything else which they are likely to experience, and experiment with. The events which took place on the night in question are almost certainly not dissimilar to events which routinely take place all over the land as part of many people's regular weekend fun.
6. In days gone by, it was the single girls who became pregnant who paid the price of their risque behaviour, and the blame was placed entirely upon them. Think about it!
7. The legal processes continually refer to the 'complainant', but the fact is she never complained about being raped! So far as I know, her complaint was that her drink had been spiked, but both of the accused first met her after she had finished drinking.
8. It was the police who decided that the technical offence of rape had taken place, because there was no proof that the girl had actually uttered the yes word. This would imply that every married man should have a camera in his marital bedroom so that he can ask his wife to record her willingness to engage in sex every time the possibility 'arises' (haha).
9. Now that Ched Evans is a convicted rapist who has served his time, he continues to be criticised for his refusal to show remorse for his crime. None of the the media's talking heads are publicly prepared to make the point that there is no shortage of historic miscarriages of justice, and that many of the details of the Ched Evans case clearly indicate that there is plenty of room for doubt over whether or not a crime was actually committed.
10. Nevertheless, I think that until Ched Evans has succeeded in getting his conviction quashed, he should stay off the football field - when his innocence has been proved, his return to glory will sweeter than anything else imaginable.