Marital Rape while Sleeping?

[Unregistered]

I dont know if I should call it rape but I have been woken up by my husband having sex with me quite a few times now, but last nite was the worst i have felt. I didnt wake up this time and only knew this morning when I woke up and was a bit sore down below with no pants on (I later found them ripped and lying on the floor) and not meaning to be disgusting but when i wiped myself i knew - it was only his "stuff" . It happens whether he is sober or drunk, altho always after we have not been gettin on. The 1st time it happened i told him how disgusted i felt, as i didnt want sex wi him when I was awake for a reason. The reason I have still been in this relationship is because until last nite he always made me doubt myself by saying how do i know it wasnt me that started it as he said he was asleep 2 and woke up 2 us havin sex. I have a 6 month old baby (I used 2 be a lighter sleeper until he was born but now i'm so exhausted as i rarely get more than 4 hrs sleep a day) and a 2 yr old, I dont know whether 2 stay and get couples counselling or leave as I notice its getting more regular? Or am I making a big deal out of nothing? Please help I cant bear to go in2 our bed incase it happens again and now I cant even get my 4 hrs sleep as my mind is goin in2 overdrive.

[isi]

Hi, I can understand how upset you feel, waking up and knowing that something has happened or is in the middle of happening and having no control over it. If you dont like it and you know that it should not be happening then it may be helpful to speak to your partner about it, or go and seek out a councellor or go to the police who can help to stop this from happening and also help out with getting you some emotional support.

I understand how difficult it is as this person is someone who you are supposed to trust and he has taken that away from you and also made you doubt yourself, your thoughts, feelings and your beliefs. Having two children with someone can also make you put up with an awful lot for an awful long time. Such a confusing time. Another thing I recommend is thinking about what is right and wrong and a good measure that I use is 'if my friend told me a story similar to mine what advice would I give them?' I know that wont work for everyone but it helps me.

p.m me anytime.

Isi x

[Unregistered]

Isi - thanks very much 4 ur reply. I have contacted marriage counselling and spoke to my husband yesterday, and after much debate, he has agreed 2 counselling. I am going 2 sleep on the floor in my babies room until we get it sorted as I desperatley need sleep. Thanks again - my mind is ready 2 explode with all the thoughts going round my head, it helps 2 know u dont think i am crazy x

[isi]

Hey, I hope the councelling works for you both and that this can be resolved. I do not think you are going mad at all...... but I do know that lack of sleep can make you think that you are going mad - I know, I have two children who dont like to sleep and its mind boggling. And with your partner behaving in that manner just adds to the stress.

Maybe some helpful things to do would be to write down the times this has happened and how it made you feel and take it to the councellor so that you can work through it with him/her and your husband.

I am not sure what to recommend for your husband as I have quite strong feelings about the way he has behaved and would like to try and help you by staying neutral as possible so I wont start ranting.

Good luck and keep posted about how you are getting on.

Stay strong and focused about what you want the outcome to be from seeing a councellor. I really hope this works for you.

Isi x

[frankgallagherwasere]

Expectations and Marriage Vowes

There is no simple answer to this and no winners, there are laws on consent and there is the right of the person to expect others to treat them with dignity and respect.

Having a baby changes many people in so many ways, others are sometimes left feeling left out, abandoned and isolated whilst others fall in to the new baby syndrom where nothing else in life matters besides the newborn. Similarly the demands of a newborn mean one has no choice but to change their priorities and others have to understand why this happens.

However his actions are wrong, he is taking not expecting. If he was complaining then one could have sympathy and understanding BUT to just take isnt the right thing to do. You have a right to expect him to treat you with understanding, he has an expectation that things would continue as normal? Well normal as in the type of sexual relationship you might have had before the baby appeared.

You have to consider both parties and their desires expectations and what a relationship is about.

[isi]

I agree about complaing or just taking. It is so wrong to take and what you have descibed is rape where there is nothing and noone else to consider but yourself. rape is rape.

Feelings and considerations regarding a relationship are totally separate to being raped as it is the victim of rape that has to live with what has happened and find a way to live life again without the fear of it happening again.

I hope that you can also speak to someone by yourself so that you can speak about how you feel in a safe environment about what has been happening. There maybe some things you are not ready to address in front of your husband.

Take care x

[frankgallagherwasere]

Works both ways

This subject/thread is one of the hardest to answer and provide support and guidance. One can apply the law BUT there is also a relationship responsibility here too, and YES HE WAS WRONG,

His action was legally wrong, criminal even and he raped you. If every person was to report their partner for every single time they touched played and took advantage in their relationship (without explicit consent) we are all doomed - and I do mean both partners especially when we were younger.

I will bite my tongue cos no matter what I say some will take it the wrong way.

[Unregistered]

You cannot give consent while you're asleep. That's a fact. If you are not able of giving consent, under the eyes of the law, this is rape.

[isi]

No you cannot give consent whilst sleeping.

FG - touching, playing is one way to find out weather there is consent or not - if that person is awake that is, and then generally the response will be recriprocated or denied maybe not verbally but physically. And that should be enough to understand weather consent is given from your partner when you are in a relationship and not just take it as and when you please.

- who do those type of men think they are?

[frankgallagherwasere]

"Taking advantage" are big words and I think can only be taken in context if one looks at the other evidence, actions and the relationship as a whole. If this had been the only thing he had done wrong and say he had not been a bully, violent, possessive and generally a catalogue of other bad behavours then one would hope he would understand his error and correct it for the sake of both his partner and the relationship (including his own kids).

However if this is one of many other abuse on the person then we have a pattern and history and this could possibly be the icing on the cake, pushing the victim that last stretch over the edge.

I am not defending either side here as I think its between the 2 people to resolve and the action based on what they decide either together or as individuals. There is a wider question of whether either can live with the other under the threat of the others threats and actions and whether thats acceptable.

Just because the law allows someone to accuse anyone of rape, is that right? If some people choose to use the Law for every single actual not even alleged instance their partner breaks a written law then their life would be full of accusations as I dont believe anyone is so perfect to always play out their sexual relationships and actions by first considering any bleeding law.

Your case ISI was nothing like this, however I can understand many partners are seriously upset by the actions of others, however is this objective or subjective and was their emotional stability under unusual pressure at that particular time. Only they will know and probably not for some time afterwards when they are able to reflect on that moment of time in the past.

[frankgallagherwasere]

Hi ISI

Im not defending him or any male here, after all it is not something one can defend or it would be stupid and incomprehensible to attempt?

I guess guys dont understand what women are going through during the time new babies and youngsters are around, after all its hard enough to get us to do the dishes and cleaning, left not even consider ironing and washing. This situation of taking advantage is nothing new, its probably more common than we want to admit and its only when your head is elsewhere you start to think about it, after all WE ALL NEED SLEEP !!

Again there is no defence, for 7 years after our child was born sex was nothing like it once was and I just had to change my expectations to accomodate. This didnt happen over night it took some adjusting and Im sure its common, one could argue natural as our lives have changed and especially our responsibilities.

But really this is a relationship issue, bedroom chatter and something partners should work out together? Isnt that what makes a partnership, cooperation and accommodation? That said this has to be understood under the current laws and as consent isnt given, one has the right to accuse their partner of assault or worse. Personally I find this scary, wrong and unworkable, however it is an issue people need to address I do understand that.

Mothers especially with youngsters and new babies are under all sorts of pressure are not what your new wife and girlfriend was like - its a bit of a shock to us guys and WE have to listen and learn !!

Im not defending him or any male, just trying to but some realistic realism to the arguement.

[isi]

NO means NO.

I think that once that boundary has passed then it is rape.

I am quite disturbed by your breakdown of sexual relationships and not quite sure if you are accepting of men treating women like that. that is exactly the attitude that need to be abolished.

quote ;Just because the law allows someone to accuse anyone of rape, is that right? If some people choose to use the Law for every single actual not even alleged instance their partner breaks a written law then their life would be full of accusations as I dont believe anyone is so perfect to always play out their sexual relationships and actions by first considering any bleeding law.quote

doesnt that suggest that there is something wrong? something seriously wrong.

I know that when I have said NO I meant it and I know that a real man would not take it any further... on the other hand a rapist would take it further.

quote 'I guess guys dont understand what women are going through during the time new babies and youngsters are around, after all its hard enough to get us to do the dishes and cleaning, left not even consider ironing and washing. This situation of taking advantage is nothing new, its probably more common than we want to admit and its only when your head is elsewhere you start to think about it, after all WE ALL NEED SLEEP !!Quote' I strongly dissagree with that and its a terrible ignorant excuse.... but you are right - we all need sleep - so leave the person sleeping alone... simple.

[frankgallagherwasere]

I have always said this situation as any other relating to the subject has to be taken into context with all other factors considered.

I dont believe its simply black and white, and since many of the laws are new and a fundamental change to the way we inter-react with each other a massive shift in expectations responsibilties and ofcourse criminal law.

Yes I do think there is a serious issue in society and in some aspect somethings are seriously wrong, BUT I also think that although the Laws are sound in an adeal world, we dont live in one and nor is the system to implement them perfect either. As it stands we can more towards a more just society but one could hardlt say we are there yet or anywhere near close.

Any good man would accept the word NO, yes they would but then any good women wouldnt use the laws to false accuse others either !! Similarly the type of relationship we once thought right will change and people will change partners a lot more too when things arent what they expect and demand - as is already happening ofcourse. And this works in all cases no matter who or what sex, but also there are many relationships where sex is hardly the most important factor that draws them together.

Is misunderstanding childbirth and the stages before during and after and how it effects different people an excuse to abuse? No ofcourse not, its simply ignorance some could argue their innocence but there are others where what they do is actually sinister and they simply do not care about their actions - for many men I do think its simply inconsiderate, however there will be cases where it is literally take take take, BUT then I would expect there are other examples in the relationship too not just simply a one off or single action even if done repeatedly.

No does mean no your right, but lets be honest and realistic, marriage vows yes means yes and we should always remember this allies to both partners not one not just male - everyone !!

Isi it isnt an arguement its a debate, the world isnt and will never be a perfect place not least during our lifetime, all we can all do is to try and make it a better place - where as I believe were going backwards. These laws have made more innocent people designer criminals and sex offenders than it has stop or catch true criminals and sex beasts. So one has to fight for justice and the truth - NOT JUST CONVICTIONS !!

[Unregistered]

Hi ISI
But really this is a relationship issue, bedroom chatter and something partners should work out together? Isnt that what makes a partnership, cooperation and accommodation? That said this has to be understood under the current laws and as consent isnt given, one has the right to accuse their partner of assault or worse. Personally I find this scary, wrong and unworkable, however it is an issue people need to address I do understand that.

It's that kind of argument which meant in the past that "rape" could not exist in a marriage. Of course it can. Just because you're in a relationship does not make you that other persons 'property' and not everything can be worked out in a relationship as not all relationships are good. Some relationships are controlling without ever seeming that way to people outside.

I was raped repeatedly over a year by an ex boyfriend. Always in my sleep (of course I always woke up as he did so.) Normal people don't do that kind of thing. Kind people don't do that kind of thing. There is something very sick and weird about a person who can only get aroused by someone who is completely vulnerable. That's not sex in my view, that's something very strange and sick.

[friday]

i may have misunderstood but if he is asleep then there is a condition called sex somnia, where people have sex in their sleep (like some sleep walkers can make meals, get dressed etc).

i watched a program about it and there was a case in america where a man had sex with a woman whilst he was asleep. the jury accepted that it was rape but he was not found guilty because he had no control over his behaviour (he spent months having EEGs in a sleep lab to prove he had the condition). i can't imagine what that must have been like for the woman.

if he isnt asleep then he is out of order and it is rape because you cant consent if you are asleep.

i hope you have someone close to you to confide in or can ring a helpline like RASAC (you can find the number online)