offloading and sharing.....

[frankgallagherwasere]

The simple fact is if someone wants to accuse someone else they can and the system will deem them to be telling the truth and the accused as guilty from day one, words alone are enough.

We could argue all day about the ins and outs of the laws and those responsible for its implementation, but that gets us no where, except round in circles and back to where we started.

Unfortunately there are just too many who abuse the fact it is too easy to get ANYONE convicted, and many are not for the reasons they say, whilst many of the true victims of assult or worse too ashamed to tell anyone or a VERY select few. So a number of accusations and ultimate convictions are often dubious at best and damn right lies and exaggerations at worst. I know Ive been inside and like myself met far too many beaten by a system designed to win at all costs.

This leaves EVERYONE feeling that justice isnt done, after all it could be anyone accused, your brother, sister, mother father boyfriend husband yourself etc etc etc. The fact of whether is truthfull doesnt come into it, the Law isnt interested in that, its only interested in convicting those accused.

[Unregistered]

The simple fact is if someone wants to accuse Unfortunately there are just too many who abuse the fact it is too easy to get ANYONE convicted

If that's the case, how come rape is a crime with such low conviction rates? 5.6% conviction rates and very low reporting rates too. It's not easy to get a conviction at all.

[Saffron]

Ummm....this thread has taken an unusual turn, thanks to the Unregistered Poster. My comments are:

Unregistered: No-one disbelieves Isi! You are clearly unfamiliar with the basic rules of posting on a website such as this. Rights Figher is a long-standing and respected member of our community and has offered very valuable advice, in her own time, to both those falsely accused and those who have survived. Your comment is ill-judged and totally unhelpful, especially to Isi. If you had read her posts, you would know that Isi is the survivor of a number of particularly vindictive and horrible rapes, and she has recently been courageous enough to give evidence against her attacker - who incidentally is now serving a substantial jail term, thanks to Isi's bravery. Isi has chosen to come here and offer support to both survivors of rape and those falsely accused, and I for one have the utmost respect for her even-handed approach.

The basic tenet of this forum is that NO-ONE is regarded as being a liar, and we are all here to support each other. Your comments are neither helpful or constructive. Join the forum as a full member, and I might actually listen to what you say.

[Saffron]

I would also like to add how great it is to see Isi back here, offering advice and support to both sides. Thank you Isi, I am in awe of your courage!

And Friday, I am so glad you are here as well. Thank you for your balanced and rational views. And I also have to mention Rights Fighter and RFLH who both give up so much of their own time! Not to mention Phil and Jo, our admins.

Without the contributors from both sides, this site wouldn't work. So thank you to all our regular people for having the courage and conviction to keep coming back and helping those people who are lost.

Oh, this sounds like an Oscar acceptance speech, and I really don't mean it to. I just want everyone to know that without everyone it just wouldn;t work. And this site has been a lifeline to me, so thank you.

S xxx

[frankgallagherwasere]

Yes well said Saffron couldnt have put it better and to the small few who some could say dedicate their lives to the cause of justice and allow others a voice, a big thanks from me too.

Unfortuneately in all cases there is a significant human factor involved meaning if the identical case went through say 5 different channels would probably get 5 completely different results. The worst thing is most people are ignorant of this and assume all cases are given the same treatment, there NOT. The differences can also we very significant and substantial starting with the Polcie Officers themselves right through to the Jury and include EVERYONE in the middle.

Unfortunately for many of us it is this ignorance that catches us out and many are left high and dry, whilst others even just through luck find justice is served. It really is such a mess that its impossible to understand from the outside without some knowledge and experience of what can and sometimes does happen to some innocent people and also those who have an honest accusation and case for assult or worse.

[Rights Fighter]

Well said FG.

And also well said Saffron - no Oscar required as it was said straight from the heart and was not an act.

This figure of 5 or 6% convictions - I'd actually like to find out how this number is arrived at. We see it bandied about a lot but we don't know if this is a guestimate or taken from all allegations made, or from allegations not made from figures dreamt up by people who assume that X amount of people are raped every day without any factual evidence as it's based on assumption.

I know that I've said "no" to partners who have gone ahead anyway and done what they wanted to do (no violence - just lie there and take it as arguing only results in days of sulks) - yep I suppose that is rape but it's also something that happens all the time to lots of people.

If everyone that happened to made a complaint to the police then there would be more men in prison than out - and of course some women have a complete disregard for men's feelings too - and behave in exactly the same manner.

Instead of rushing off to the police I have simply left the marriage/relationship. Society is now "big" on creating "victims" where some actually do not exist. The media is in part responsible for that.

[frankgallagherwasere]

ONe has to agree with you RF on what you say but then one has to look at the wider picture too. If one partner refuses their other partners request for sex do they then have a right to seek it elsewhere? A partnership is give and take and no one should be under any illusions its an easy ride from start to finish.

Having spoken to many lads inside it would appear rape/assult is now used as a divorce copout or where there is a fight for child custody/house/cars/money/respect/friends the list is endless I think. HOwever I think its fair to say that many cases have a relationship breakdown associated to them, ours did and yet this is barred from court whoch makes the whole case a mockery. The jury are left in the complete dark about the circumstances surrounding the reason for making an accussation which leaves the accused looking guilty as they would appear to have no excuse or mitigation - no defence almost !!!

The current Law on consent/assault stinks as its so open to abuse as an accusation being enough to convict is simply uncontrolable and unworkable in reality. It sounds great in theory BUT as many of us know in practice simply a JOKE and licence to prison or compensation depending on which side you sit.

I think most realise now government and Police figure mean nothing, like terrorists 124 of 14,000 questioned have been convicted and even some of them are fabrications. Sex offenders are easier to convict so our numbers are further distorted, but it makes just as good front page news.

But it would appear the judicial is far happier to argue for the terrorist accused in court than they are for sex cases, where many are simply abandoned. Legal (illegal) aid is often no more than a legal requirement for the state to provide legal representation - often of dubious assistance to the accused.

[Saffron]

well said FG and RF.
I agree RF that the research done to arrive at this 5-6% figure is hazy at best. It could be a question as simple as "have you ever had sex when you didn;t really want to?" to which most people would answer "yes". I think all of us, men and women will hold their hands up to having "gone along with it" when perhaps all we really wanted to do was fall asleep! This then gets put down as "having sex against your will" which of course is a completely different matter.
My experience is that once a case arrives at court, the likelihood of conviction is far far higher - I have heard it being as much as 60%.
The problem liles with the very nature of the crime - it is usually committed when there are only 2 people in the room - the "victim" and the "attacker". it then boils down to one person's word against the other's. And FG is absolutely right - it's a complete lottery as to who is believed.

[frankgallagherwasere]

Well Ive just had my monthly probation meeting and this very question was one of our debating points. Has a person the right to expect a total say on what happens in their bed at all times in a relationship? well what a boring lot who agree on that !! OFcourse when your younger its different as one experiments whereas when on is older, it I guess become a preference or pleasure even a perversion in some cases. But everyone has different standards and expectations and were all individuals what pleases one doesnt necessarily please someone else, does it? (ps not up for debate only a point)

What matters ofcourse is the law and whether the act is criminal, when did this ever come into the bedroom discussions I wonder? In the old days people just enjoyed sex and it wasnt a debate about its good and bad points - unless ofcourse one party was left feeling unfullfilled. Ah thats why they invented Rabbits and Dolphins I believe. And for anyone who doesnt know what they are , google them cos Im sure not going to explain their purpose here !!!!

Since when did bedroom activities become public debate?? yuck !! Guess I must be getting old.

[isi]

RF - It sounds like you have had some not very nice people in your life.

Women become desensitised, numb and dont fight back because they know they will get hurt even more. And what you have can be a woman being raped through intimidation, bribary and through threats. That being why many women may experience the violence of rape but may not get punched, broken bones ect. (abh,gbh)

No one should be made to feel that they 'have to' sleep with anyone or just 'take it'only to have to leave that person following that/those events. It is demoralising to women. It is a male dominace that women are reinforcing. Those men are reinforced to think that they can just 'take it' and if that goes on for a long time then when a person does say 'no' and mean it that women could get very hurt because that man has been conditioned into thinking that 'he can and he will and the previous did not complain too much about it'.

And I think that the sooner men learn that women are not going to have that kind of behaviour the better and more women should go to the police if there are that many men putting themselves on women like that - it is wrong wrong wrong.

Just having to type this MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL.

Why should a woman be put in a situation where thay feel/think/know that there opinion does not matter - NO means blinkink NO....... MEN NEED TO LISTEN.

I woud hate my daughter to grow up in a world where she met men that just 'took it' dont get me wrong I know it happens but it needs to bloody well change. And any man that reads this just think twice before ignoring a women because NO mean NO.

RANT OVER - - - FOR NOW ANYWAY

[isi]

FG - you were right the argueing was not helpful but that is what seems to happen regularly on this forum and would be nice to stamp it out.

In my case it was very straight forward. Medical evidence, DNA, tears, cuts, bruises, cctv, witnesses, text messages, phone calls.

Even though all this stuff was there I was just so scared I thought he would get away with it all. I have never really spoken about the ins and outs of the case because I have been somewhat emotionally unstable and could only speak about how I was feeling. The actual case itself was not important.

The only thing that was important was that he stayed the hell away from me, and to do that I had to go to court. I was scared for my kids myself.... in fact I just felt scared. That feeling is starting to ease off now and I am starting to relax now.

Still have bad dreams, not alot of sleep ect ect. Moments of complete panick and disorientation. But I suppose this is all a result of all the things I have experience not just from one instance.

But, I am not dismissing someone else feeling like I do after just one instance as I suppose that it can all have a similar effect - depends on the person too.

I think that post and my last post deserves a whole new thread!!!!!