i dont know if i was raped

[flemma]

I went out for my birthday and got very drunk. I know i was dancing with my male friends in a promicuous way, such as dancing on the pole with them, but it was my friend so i just saw it as a laugh. i remember every detail of the night up until this point, and then it just cuts off. i dont know if my drink was spiked or the alcohol had just kicked in and i was too drunk. i know i had drunk alot, and was stumbling alot. my friend said she saw me trying to dance with lots of guys and was flirting with lots of them, but i dont remeber this at all. my last recolection is being in the toilets with this guy. i dont know who he was, what he looked like or how i got there (but i know i ddt know him) i think the mood to start with was that i felt confused, but not particularly scared as such and i think he was performing oral sex on me, although i dont really remember.i then have a flash of him trying to put his penis in my mouth and i said i ddt want to, and then a flash being up against the wall of tthe toilet and him asking to "****" me, and i said "i dont want to" , and i remember he tried to put his penis into me.i dont remeber anything else, other than scrabbling at the lock. although my friend said i had disappeared for hours and wasnt answering my phone - i dont remeber any of this, and in none of my flash backs was my phone ringing. wen she found me i was in the club alone and crying and i told her someone had to tried it on with me. but i ddt think sex actually had occured. the next morning i was bleeding and i have been to the doctors and they suspect i have chamldia because i have "inflamed cells" although i am waiting for test results to confirm this. im virtually certain that i couldnt have caught it from any previous partners, as iv never had unprotected sex before. so was i raped? is it possible that i could have agreed and not remebered?is it still rape if i agreed but i was barely conscious and dnt remeber agreeing? why would i have bled though? there was also marks on my underwear i suspect might be semen. is it my fault if i was so drunk i consenting going to the toilets with him? although i dont remeber if i did consent, i remeber nothing.please advise me

[flemma]

i also dont remember leaving the toilets, and i dont know if i was scrambling at the lock to get out, or whether i was just to drunk to unlock it. am i right in thinkin there was no point going to the police seen as i have no idea what the guy looked like, or any details, because they wouldnt be able to find who he was or to prosecute if it was rape?

[friday]

if you arent certain you did not consent then it is wrong to go to the police and potentially cause a man to be accused of rape. drunken consent is consent, if you were unconscious from alcohol then obviously you couldnt consent. this man would have been more of a gentleman had he not had sex with you under the influence but was he also drunk? in which case how would you feel if he accused you of sexual assault?

if you know that you said no then the police would need dna evidence if you cant provide a clear description. they could also look at cctv of the club and surrounding area. if you have the unwashed underwear from the night then that is evidence. if you know it was rape then you should go to the police asap BUT please do not if you arent sure. most people have had sex when they were drunk, even had sex they have no recollection of (i'm guilty of that) but it does not mean they were raped, just drunk.

did you have any injuries? these may be evidence of force (e.g bruises on arms from where he held you), did the doctor notice any evidence of forced entry? all these things are vital evidence so if you no longer have evidence of them (eg photos) then there is little point going through the trauma of a police interview, and potentially court, which is like nothing you can imagine. it is almost as horrific as being raped.

i hope things become clearer for you. please think carefully before you decided if you want to go to the police, if you arent sure what happened, how can you testify in court? drunken sex may not be the most pleasant of things but it isnt illegal.

[friday]

just thought i'd add that if you were to report it with no physical injury, just the knowledge you said no, then his defence (and possibly the truth) would be that you said no and then changed your mind, or said "i dont want to" to another question.

[flemma]

my advice to anyone who finds themselves in this same situation is to go to the hospital as soon as it happens, because they can give u an answer 4 sure (apprently)after an examination, i jus wish i had cus its really ****in me up not havin it clear in my mind. especailly with answers like that 1 ^ because it doesnt explain the bleedin and the pain, and jus puts doubt back in ur mind.

[isi]

It sounds like rape to me, 'I dont want to', 'no' - same thing really! So what if you were dancing with people, so what if it was mainly men, that does not give anyone the right to force sex on you......

But if you don't report it, make sure you take care of yourself, emotionally and physically..... it can be quite draining after something like that. I know I am not coping well.....

[friday]

flemma-sorry if i came across abrupt, i just wouldnt wish the experience of the criminal justice system on anyone. with a less than 6% conviction rate and only 30% even getting to court i would save yourself the trauma unless you have medical evidence. the bleeding is evidence, unless it was your first time bleeding is not normal in consensual sex and the nurse/doctor may well have made notes about the potential fact it was rape, this could be used as evidence in court. of course the defence will argue that it isnt that unusual (if a man has a large penis it can sometimes cause bleeding) and then they will say you asked to stop and he did, thus creating reasonable doubt.

if you decide to go to the police, be sure to tell them which doctor you went to and the date, tell them anything you remember, no matter how trivial it seems. if you remember any scars or tattoos he had that could really help, as well as any info about him (his first name, where he worked or lived etc). you need to go asap because any cctv of the area could be deleted or lost if you dont go now. your friend can also be a witness as she was the first person you spoke to.

good luck with whatever you choose to do. whether you decide to go to the police or not you may want to think about counselling, depending on where you are there should be at least a few specialist services. if you live in england i can pm you some useful numbers/addresses.

rape is one of the most horrific crimes, only you know if thats what happened to you. i hope you get the support you need, you may not feel you need it now but in the long run it may be something really useful.

[Unregistered]

It sounds to me like you said "I don't want to" a lot.

A lot of people on here (Friday included) should remember that the law says the woman must consent (and there must be consent not nothing, not inability to respond because of drink). Saying "I don't want to" is very clearly not consent, therefore it is rape.

Also even without a clear description, there is a chance CCTV could have caught this person. I don't know if it's still worth reporting for that possibility?

[london]

What was you doing in the toilet in the first place with a guy you didnt know?

Was there any marks on ur body apart from the bleeding as you stated that you were scrambling to open the door?
And surely you two were'nt the only people in the toilet for that amount of time!! Did anyone else hear you both?

Why didnt you report this to the club/pub staff at the time?

Nowadays people get drunk, have sex, dont really remember and then accuse people of rape.
Obviously not all the time but sometimes, im saying you was or you wasnt, but if i were cross examining you i would be asking you these questions for sure

[Unregistered]

What was you doing in the toilet in the first place with a guy you didnt know?

Was there any marks on ur body apart from the bleeding as you stated that you were scrambling to open the door?
And surely you two were'nt the only people in the toilet for that amount of time!! Did anyone else hear you both?

Why didnt you report this to the club/pub staff at the time?

Nowadays people get drunk, have sex, dont really remember and then accuse people of rape.
Obviously not all the time but sometimes, im saying you was or you wasnt, but if i were cross examining you i would be asking you these questions for sure

London. I restate. The law in the UK says you must provide consent not just absence of saying "no".

She remembers saying that she didn't want it.

Most rape victims do not have any injuries.

Just because she'd been drinking does not mean it wasn't rape.

Drag yourself into the 21st century. Are you the kind of man who would chose to pick up an obviously drunk woman and force her to have sex in a toilet despite her drunkenness and despite her saying she didn't want it? If so, you're not the kind of man I'd want to meet.

I'm sure your suggestions of questions for cross examination were well meant but as rape is a severely under reported crime (approx only 20% are reported) and a severely under convicted crime (approx only 6% of reported rapes result in conviction), I don't think your comments are helpful. Do you?

[abcd]

Thankyou for your responses, its been too long now for any evidence or anything seen as it was october, and i dont want to go to the police because as stated, under cross examination i probably would fall because i dont remeber anything.
my friend who was the only person i told, who was in the club seems to think that to quote "i think you got your drunkness confused with fear", and she thinks i probably went with him willingly. this really worries me because she was the only one there who iv told this too, and i feel like there must be something she knows that shes not telling me because i dont remember, for her to doubt me like this??i really dont remeber goin to the toilets so if i was willing or not?but i know i said i ddt want to wen he tried to have sex with me, but i dont know for sure if sex actually occurred?but iv never bled from consenual sex iv had before, and i was in so much pain like id never felt b4?so surely this must mean i was?so y doesshe doubt me?and if my best friend doubts me, and i get some of the responses like london and friday; then im scared of telling anyone else incase i am crying rape?
its so scary because i really dont remember anything it draws a complete blank wen i try to think about how i got to be in that situation, or what happened for sure?i felt so ill the next day, like iv never felt before from alcohol; how do u feel if uv had ur drink spiked?
i really dont know how to feel, i feel really upset about it still and causes me to cry , but i feel guilty for thinkin that i was raped wen ppl doubt what iv said?does anyone understand how im feeling?or am i just being stupid, and duelling on it too much?

[Saffron]

No, you are not being stupid and dwelling on it too much. What happened to you was frightening.
Have you thought about going to your doctor and asking to be referred to a counsellor. There are lots of excellent counselling services which are run by charities, but you need to be referred to them by your GP.
Please don't think anyone here disbelieves you. London was insensitive, given that he has recently been falsely accused, and he didn't mean to upset you. I think that perhaps the issue here is that you are not certain yourself exactly what happened, which in itself is alarming.
make sure you are getting lots of support - talk to your best mate, your mum, your doctor. If it will make you feel better, go to the police. Unfortunately, because you don't know this man's name, and because it happened a while ago (so no DNA evidence) it may not get very far.
Good luck. I hope you can move on in time.

[Fazz]

I don't think you should accuse someone of rape it you can't remember. I'm so sorry to say that, especially that you feel you might have had your drink spiked, but I don't think you would get a conviction. You could go to your local police station though, ask for a female PC, and just chat it through with her. She might be able to give you some advice, help or contacts to talk through things in more detail.

Bleeding or being sore doesn't definitely mean you were raped, maybe that thought might help your personal thoughts, it might well be that you weren't! In which case you're worrying about nothing I hope that's the case, but what I'm trying (badly) to say is that it's not a situation that you're going to be able to resolve on your own, so if you've got your doubts yourself about what happened....go for the best scenario!

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Fazz;4682]I don't think you should accuse someone of rape it you can't remember. QUOTE]

A conviction is not likely after this time, I agree. However, this person may have attacked other women and it doesn't make it not rape.

abcd; through no fault of the forum owners here, there are other forums on the net where only survivors post and to be honest, I find them healthier places to be. Aftersilence is one worth trying. No offence mods but to have the fact that you were raped questioned by people is really hurtful for most rape survivors but due to the nature of this site, it's sometimes inevitable that it happens.

[friday]

Unregistered-you make some valid points about alcohol not meaning it isnt rape and the fact the majority of rape victims not having injuries. as i said if flemma was unable to consent because she had passed out from drinking then of course it is rape and if she didnt fight then she probably did the most sensible thing. if you want to get out in one piece then its best not to try fight.

what we are all saying, is basically what you would be asked in court. and worse. for it to even end up in court will need the police to believe it happened and then it goes to magistrates and then if its believed to be a strong case it goes to crown court, occasionally twice if its a hung jury. and even after all that its more likely that he would walk away "not guilty" or get aquitted, meaning the victim has gone through over a year of hell on top of the trauma of being raped in the first place.

im telling her what i wished someone had told me because i never would have gone to court if i knew he would get off and if i knew just how horrific it would be.

i understand that i may come across a little cold or harsh but to get through court ive had to become someone that i never wanted to be. i guess you really become an adult when you realise that the "good guys" (police, court etc) don't always triumph, but more importantly that you have to keep on the right side of the law because if you dont you will be no better than him. when you have a great job, beautiful family etc he will still be nothing more than a pathetic excuse for a man and it sounds awful but i hope he never forgets that night because if the memories dont make him shudder then he is truly empty. and if he is that dead inside then he will never be truly happy. and whilst it may be difficult to get on with your life, and things wont happen as you expected them to before being raped, you can still become everything you want to be and make an identity for yourself that doesnt try to forget what happened but realises what strength of character you must have had for surviving, and continuing to survive.