Just need some clarity, I'm not calling this rape...

[Raptorace]

Hi friday, I'm sorry I'm going to post an alternative view here but I feel I have too.
If the guy spiked your drink then I hope he rots in he'll for what hd has done. But if he didn't were in a really grey area.
I got falsely accused of rape under similar circumstances, my accuser says she remembers nothing, I don't know if she really believes it or not because she had strong motive to lie to save her relationship but I won't go into that here. We too had smoked and drank too much, and she claims she remembers nothing of how it happened and that she didn't consent. I was also well gone, but do remember she was very much involved and I'd say even demanding taking much of ghe control. So I have to say from my own experience that people can be consenting at the time, but fail to remember this point the following day when they are sober and feel they could never have consented with that person. I too have woken up with someone I don't remember going to bed with and thinking she must have taken advantage of my state, but personally I take the blame for getting in such a state.
Sorry if this upsets you, it's not meant to. And if it turns out he spiked you, then as I said at the start, that's entirely his doing and he should be jailed for 20 years in my opinion. But if he did nothing wrong and gets a 10 year stretch then that's as bad on him as rape is.

[friday]

Hi Raptorace,
I really do get where you are coming from and as you will see from my posts on the forum I do not take allegations of rape lightly. False allegations ruin lives, I have seen that too many times on here, as does rape. I haven't reported him to the police. I went to the police about my drink potentially being spiked and as I said in my earlier posts I told them that if there was no evidence it had been then I would accept responsibility for getting into that situation. I don't want to ruin a mans life when they have done nothing wrong or even if they acted wrongly but not illegally (i.e. taking massive advantage but not rape).

I am just going to quote a bit of one of my posts because I am interested to hear your opinion. Perhaps I am judging too harshly.

If a man came on this forum saying he had drinked and smoked cannabis with a girl who continuously said she wasn't interested in him and that he waited until she was so out of it she had thrown up to help her into bed, take of the bottom half of her clothing while she was face down on the bed and then have sex with her during which she came around/woke up and couldn't even speak I would hope some people would question if he was really falsely accused. I know that I couldn't support him.

And just to add again I have made stupid drunken mistakes, been completely unable to remember sleeping with someone (only once could I not remember anything, I don't make a habit of it!) and never once have I thought it was rape. I knew I consented, even if I would never have done sober. This is different. I remember being face down on the bed and him taking off my trousers while standing at the bottom of the bed and just thinking "what the hell is he doing?!" but not being able to move or speak. Then nothing until some pain, I then tried to speak again and couldn't. Then nothing until what must have been early morning when he tried touch me again and I got the covers, grabbed some pajama bottoms from under my pillow and wrapped up facing the wall so he couldn't touch me. Then at around 9am he tried to touch me again. I moved his hand, he tried again, I got up.

I know he didn't hold me down or anything and once I was more sober and could move he just kept trying but didn't actually force me but it isn't about whether he forced me the next day it is about whether I consented when I was drunk/stoned and someone who is drunk/stoned doesn't put up a fight. In my block of flats someone would have definetely heard if there had been a struggle.

Anyway what I am saying is that I was unable to consent. Whether he believed I consented is a completely different issue and one I can't answer without telepathy. I don't think he could have believed I did because I personally think sex takes two people actively involved but he may think I was just playing dead or liked to speak gibberish when having sex.

I am not taking this any further so his innocence or guilt is really not an issue. What is an issue is my response to this incident. I feel it to be an assault. It was certainly more rough than I would have consented to. I undertand that many people have been falsely accused of rape and that is deplorable but one thing we always do on this forum is accept people's version of events as truth. I imagine people would not be too pleased if I went round saying "well you shouldn't have been alone with a drunk girl" when they are falsely accused. I would be grateful if people could accept my version of events as truth, just as I accept theirs.

[Saffron]

Hey Raptorace
I agree with you in principle. The difference here is that Friday knows she didn't consent. She has already accepted that she put herself in a vulnerable situation and she feels foolish for doing so. She doesn't need anyone to point that out to her.

The basic tenet of this site is that we never question someone's veracity unless given good reason (and believe me, we have had our fair share of guilty people trying to get help/support! Part of me wishes you could see their posts, they are repulsive and unbelievable). We can of course express our feelings when we feel someone has behaved foolishly, as I have done recently with Whyisthishappeningtome and a few others.

The problem with this, and so many other cases, is that there are only ever two witnesses to the event: the complainant and the defendant. As such these cases are a complete lottery when it comes to prosecution and/or trial.

I understand that you feel that perhaps this is a "grey area" case, and I think Friday believes that too. That's why she has posted here for support in the first instance rather than running straight to Plod and stating "I've been RAPED".

[OldJoe]

Do you remember any of the intercourse?

[friday]

Only coming to/waking up and feeling pain and finding him on top of me holding my legs open (in a position I never have sex in because it hurts and brings back memories of when I was raped at 16). I kind of cried out, because it hurt, tried to say something but he couldn't understand me then nothing.

God this is so messed up

[OldJoe]

I really don't know what to say because I was actually falsely accused of rape (however me and the false accuser wern't drunk and hadn't taken any drugs at all)

do you not have a clue what happened next? did he stay with you all night? did he just go home? did you use a condom?

or did you just wake up in the morning with that one memory of him on top of you?

sorry for the intimate questions. x

[friday]

I have no idea what happened next (or anything that happened before but after throwing up, getting in to bed and him taking my trousers off). It is a horrible situation. I honestly couldn't tell you what he did to me and that makes me sick. There is no memory until the early hours when he tried to touch me and I wrapped up in the duvet and put some pajamas bottoms on. There was no evidence of condom use in my flat the next day but again I don't know. He stayed until the morning sleeping in my bed.

Other than that tiny snippet of memory there is nothing. It obviously lasted much longer than that (I will spare you the details!) and that terrifies me. I didn't lead him on. I told him I wasn't interested all night so why did he think it was ok to just get in bed with me? A normal person would have slept on the sofa, gone back to their own flat (it is in the same building so hardly far) or even slept in the bed but in their clothes. I just feel so sick.

It is so messed up. I didn't struggle, I didn't say no but that was because I couldn't. I just keep going over it in my head (it doesn't take long!) and keep trying to work out if he knew I couldn't consent. If I was with someone who couldm't speak I would realise they were too out of it to have sex. Wouldn't he? If I had to undress someone when they were flat out on the bed and then undress myself I would realise they weren't in a position to be having sex. Wouldn't he? If I had to hold someone's legs open so hard they got bruises I would realise they weren't into it. Wouldn't he?

I can't do this anymore. I thought I was coping and I am not. I am driving myself insane with thoughts of what is missing from my memory. I am going crazy trying to work out if I am just a drama queen who is making some guy out to be a rapist when really he is just a creep or if it really was rape. Rape is a big word. Far too big for this. This wasn't right. I know that but is it illegal?

[friday]

I really can't deal with this. I am really trying to just stop making a fuss and get on with life but it isn't working. I just can't get my head around so many things. If I consented then why did I keep my bra and t-shirt on? Why would I have sex in a position I hate and that hurts? Why would I not use protection when it was so close by? Surely sex starts with kissing? How could I kiss if I was face down on the bed?

Most importantly if it was consensual then why am I such a mess? I have made mistakes many times before, what makes this different?

I really can't cope. I just want to cry and scream and cut. I won't. I will probably cry though. I know these posts are getting crazier but I feel like I am losing my mind. What is the big deal? This is nothing. It is just the not knowing. How would I know if he put it anywhere else. They tested my mouth and if the test came back he put it in my mouth I don't think I could cope. I guess I should just worry about what I know but it is the unknowns that scare me most.

I am sorry. I am completely spamming the thread with random rubbish. My head is just all over the place. Sleep seems impossible but I will try.

[RFLH]

Friday, its time for you to step away for a while.

For the life of me I can't understand why there has been so much hostility towards you.

You haven't done anything wrong and you need to look after yourself now and heal.

I think you ought to think of either deleting this thread or locking it as the replies aren't helpful to you.

You know where I am if you need me.

[friday]

I am going to lock this thread as suggested by RFLH. I am really sad as this place has been a lifeline to me over the last couple of years and I hoped that people would be able to support me. I know some people have and I am so thankful for that but it is starting to feel like an interrogation and if I wanted that I would have gone to the police and reported I had been raped.

Thank you to everyone has has helped me work through things. I will still be around but obviously this is not the right place for me to discuss this.