I'm a strange one, I know

[Phoenix]

OK, I'm going to take my life in my hands and post this.

I'm 30 years old, married with three kids.

When I was 18 years old I was raped.

I was drunk, behaving like a slut and leading the man on.

I got raped.

(Tomorrow I'll try and post some more - I'm a bit embarrassed to be honest)

[Saffron]

Hi Fem (I am not going to call you "worthless"!)
I appreciate that it isn't easy to talk about this.
Behaving "like a slut" and "leading a man on" does not give him licence to rape you. If you said No and he carried on, then he is the one in the wrong, not you.
No-one here will pressure you to write anything you don't want to. Do it whenever you are ready.

[Bigsister]

Rape is such an intrusive violating assult that no behavior or the way someone dresses, gives someone else the right to do that in my opinion.

Just reading your blog. Whilst I dont agree with most that you say on there, if it is therapy that works for you, then so be it.
I agree with some parts though, like the comparing it to theft almost.
Which also had me thinking, if I had a top notch flash car, & drove it round the neighbourhood showing it off, flaunting it, as you call it, does that mean I deserve/ should expect to have it stolen?
Just a thought that popped into my head...

[Bigsister]

Also you say...
If you can’t control yourself then you’ve got to be ready to take the consequences
Sorry, but that refers more to the rapeist to me, than the female.
I do agree that a woman that cant remember what happened due to being so drunk should not cry rape though. If someone cant remember consenting, that doesn't mean they didn't.

If she lives in “social housing” she will simply be evicted without notice and either required to find alternative rented accommodation in the private market or to go into one of the new government “hostels

lol sorry but wha??? I am single, 2 teens, work, pay my own rent in social housing, I claim tax credits but that is the only 'benefit' I claim. I dont claim housing benefit, I pay our rent myself. Me & my 2 move into a hostel when I am not in rent arrears? I think not lol

[Phoenix]

Bigsister, I'm not sure a post like this is the right place to discuss social housing,.

I guess (since on another board I was accused of being a troll) I'd like to make it quite clear that I'm NOT.

As for what happened to me, you don't know the full details and quite how badly I behaved.

In any case, I think the person who used the therapy word (ironic, isn't it? Therapist; the rapis) was right on the money.

I've found many people think I'm a sick and disgusting person; others see a bit deeper and are not judgemental and realise I've got some valid or at least interesting points to make.

[Phoenix]

I might also post a new thing I've written on egoism.

[Bigsister]

Well, having gone on to read most of the rest of your blog, I am wondering if you are really male? And as you admit yourself, strange! From my perspective anyway. But I am the opposite to the females you describe on there, I am a happy independant singleton of 4 years now, that has no desire to have a male in my life, apart from my son, & he's only 16

[Saffron]

Fem, I just read some of your blog, but couldn't actually finish it.
I feel like you are ridiculing me for trying to be kind and encouraging you to post.
Are you for real, or is this some twisted satire?

[Phoenix]

Well, having gone on to read most of the rest of your blog, I am wondering if you are really male? And as you admit yourself, strange! From my perspective anyway. But I am the opposite to the females you describe on there, I am a happy independant singleton of 4 years now, that has no desire to have a male in my life, apart from my son, & he's only 16

No, I'm not a man. I'm a woman. I haven't suggested you're a man pretending to be a woman so don't diss me. I'll post a pic of myself if you like!

I've been perfectly polite and people can just disagree without having to slag each other off.

You've obviously not met many other women who feel like I do.

I wonder if you've met any rape victims before?

I'm one and I know what it feels like.

Have you any idea how worthless, dirty and inadequate you feel inside?

Have you any idea how much it changes your life?

Have you any idea how difficult it's made it for me to get a normal relationship?

Thank God I'm married to a good, kind, caring, tolerant and understanding man. He knows my rape ruined my life and he cares and tries to help me.

I'm not going to slag you off because I think that sort of thing is childish but I don't feel a thread like this Iwhich OUGHT to be about discussing the issues) is the right place to throw stones at people.

I know lots of single people and single parents too and they all seem IMO to be more selfish and uncaring than married couples.

Don't you think your kid deserves a father? I've got three and they've got TWO loving, caring parents.

Do you think everyone should sing from the same hymnsheet?

I'm entitled to express my opinions.

For what it's worth I'm honest enough to admit that I'm messed up, confused, and trying to work my way through, through lots of areas of life where IMO things have gone wrong (not just for me) and putting forward some ideas on how maybe we could make things better.

If that's a crime then I'm a criminal.

Do you want to execute me?

Or would you rather just disagree politely (like I try to do)?

[Phoenix]

Fem, I just read some of your blog, but couldn't actually finish it.
I feel like you are ridiculing me for trying to be kind and encouraging you to post.
Are you for real, or is this some twisted satire?

No one should ever feel the need to apologise for being kind and showing encouragement to other people (especially when they're putting forward ideas that are not just controversial but pretty unpopular too.)

I'm a mixed-up girl; I've also got an East End sense of humour and I like to play Devil's Advocate.

Sometimes i also like to be a bit of a shock jock and post in a more provocative way than maybe I ought to.

I don't know how much of my blog you've read but my piece on distributism, for instance, is just a few thoughts on a better economic system than capitalism or socialism.

My attitude to council housing has NOTHING to do with my attitudes to feminism or rape or any other "gender issues."

Council housing is the biggest single factor reinforcing the class structure in Britain and IMO it would be better if ALL council homes were privatised.

I'm sad that you think that honesty is a vice rather than a virtue; that being compassionate and tolerant is something to be ashamed of; and that you feel that unpopular and controversial opinions don't have the right to be heard, well, I'm sorry.

For what it's worth none of you had any idea WHAT I was planning to post on here.

It certainly WASN'T some of the stuff I put on my blog or on some more wayout rape forums i belong to.

I think you've prejudged me and I'd like a chance to prove that the assumptions about me are - well, oversimplified at best and plain WRONG at worst.

Thank you for being nice.

I certainly DIDN'T plan on causing trouble and nor am I any sort of a troll.

[Phoenix]

For what it's worth, this is one of the two most recent posts on my blog.

Am I a sick b i t c h?

Several poeple on about five boards have suggested that I AM a sick b i t c h. One said that (unlike another member who'd just dissed me because I'd suggested that women needed to show some responsibility as well as men) I wasn't a rational or likable person.

My response was that the woman in question might well be likable but she wasn't rational.

As for the bloke who'd made the comment, I told him straight that he was NEITHER of those things.

It's stranee, actually; since I've started posting on forums devoted to rape I've found that men are generally MORE hostile to what I say than women; women who HAVEN'T been raped more hostile to me than those who HAVE been; and that the neo-Nazi "progressive" types are more hostile to me than those with liberal, tolerant, and compassionate attitudes towards the world.

I've actually asked on these boards if people think I AM a sick b i t c h and MOST people, mercifully, have answered "no."

Look, I'm only too well aware of how much my rape 12 years ago when I was 18 years old messed up my life.

That doesn't define me any more than any single aspect of a person's life defines them.

When I post on that topic I get big responses, many of them thoughtful, intelligent and thought-provoking; many of them stupid, bigoted and personally abusive.

I've had a person who otherwise has been thoruughly decent towards me ask if I've ever been raped.

Christ, I've mentioned it about a dozen or more times on two threads on hte board in question!

Do people not READ what I've said or do they just come out with their prejudices and narrow-minded ignroance?

I'm sick to death of it all and beginning to wish I'd never started this flipping blog or joined the other boards!

Is it worth fighting for tolerance, compassion, reason and all the rest of the liberal values I believe in?

Or should I just give up and let the bullies win?

Eff it, I WON'T; but by God I'm depressed and angry as hell with some people.

Linkefaschismus ist echt scheiss! (left-wing fascism is pure s h i t!)

[Saffron]

I don't think that Bigsister was dissing you in any way, actually. She said your blog was interesting, but that she didn;t necessarily agree with everything you have written. Having now read most of the blog (and not just the parts about c***s, which is all I had seen before) I believe that you have valid, if controversial opinions.

I have seen the pic on your Yahoo profile and other members will be able to see it too. No need to post another.

Please remember that many of the people who post here do so out of desperation. They are not as internet or blog-savvy as you seem to be. Reading a provocative posting may well deter them from seeking the support they are looking for....at least from us.

No, none of us have any idea what you were planning to post. I would encourage you to post it if you want to. But please bear in mind that many many people here are at a fragile stage of their lives. Lively debate is actively encouraged.

Speaking from a personal perspective, I found this forum when I was at the absolute nadir of my life. My husband was self-harming and suicidal, and I couldn't see any way out either. The only thing keeping me going was my 3 year old son...he didn't deserve to be left an orphan. I desperately needed some kind of assistance, and thanks to the kind people who run the forum, I was given it.

We are here to assist and support those who have been raped as well as falsely accused. As I said, lively debate is encouraged. But please think about what drives people to seek out a forum dedicated not only to rape survivors, but also to those falsely accused of rape.

[Phoenix]

Don't you think I'm desperate too?

Don't you think my heart goes out to victims of rape AND to those falsely accused of it?

Two friends of mine (gypsies; I'm part-gypsy) got banged up inside prison (not for rape, but for running a brothel).

Inside they both get raped by other inmates and also beaten up by them and by guards.

They were so traumatised they tried to commit suicide.

I would NEVER (at least not intentionally) say or do ANYTHING on a forum like this which would add to the pain of others.

I'm a member of about 100 different forums on loads of different subjects and believe me I post different stuff on each one.

Horses for courses, right?

I always follow the rules of any board I belong to.

Most of the stuff on my blog I wouldn't post here (though I've posted it on other places where it was more appropriate).

Like I said, I believe in fairness, compassion, tolerance and understanding.

That's how I am.

I'm an East Ender and I'm a wisywig sort of girl. I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

But that doesn't mean if it's a choice between frankness and compassion I won't choose compassion first every time because I always will!

[Bigsister]

Thanks Saffron, you're right, I wasn't dissing them. I actually thought about it before posting to avoid being judgemental. Oh well. I'm not too good at coming across well on line.
I wasn't aware that we were supposed to wait for another post, although I am not sure how I got to that blog, but I do know it was through this site.
Also didn't realise that unless we agreed with their views, we were to keep shtum. So I am keeping shtum now lol
Offering kind words to some people if they are angry is fine, saying I disagree with someone if they post an article that is aimed to shock is also ok in my opinion, it's a public forum, but I wont be someones cyber punch bag, personally

[Saffron]

We cross-posted.

I wouldn't ever say that I have been raped, but there was an occasion when I was young and stupid. I definitely wasn't in the right state of mind to consent. I was p1ssed out of my head, and even though in the cold light of day I wouldn't have looked at him twice, I suggested we should go back to his place. We did just that, and we began to have sex. He was also extremely drunk, so much so that he couldn't maintain an erection, so we giggled a bit and went to sleep.

In the morning, he was VERY keen to re-start matters. As far as I was concerned, the idea had most definitely lost its appeal and all I wanted to do was go home to sleep off my hangover. However, I was the one who had suggested that I should stay at his, I had instigated sexual contact the night before, and some perverse part of me felt guilty that he hadn't been able to "complete" what I had started. So I let him have his wicked way, whilst feeling thoroughly disgusted by what was happening and wishing it was all over.

Was I raped? I don't think so. I never said "no" and I didn't fight him off. Was it against my will? Well, having sobered up, I really didn't want to do it. Did I let him do it? Yes. So was it rape? Not in my mind.

So, I am not necessarily hostile to what you say, but I am not entirely comfortable with the way you say it.