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**Snoopyseed** · 8 November 2004, 07:10 PM

Hello Tara first of all i offer my sympathy towards you and the situation you are in.I want to also say well done for going to the police , it never is easy to report these things and takes so much courage to actually step inside the police station and make a statment.From what you are saying about this man he is very violent and after being in court over 18 times it seems highly liklely that this guy is a repeat offender, which means ultimatly that he is likely to do it again.I really do hope that this time justice is served and he ends up doing a long custodial sentence.It is quite common for men to deny that they have commited rape, often telling their friends and family that the accuser is lying.Freinds and family are going to beleive him when he says he has not raped you because it is very difficult for friends and family to see one of their own doing this kind of crime, many rapists often lie to their friends and family ,and obviously friends and family are going to stick with him and defend him as they do not want to see someone they care about go to prison.This is always the first line of defence and something that unfortunatly most survivors of rape have to put up with.Most people view rape as an evil despicable crime and they do not want to think about one of their friends or family commiting this type of crime.Please do not concern yourself with this though because you have made a statement, and he is on remand, let him do what he is doing in prison, he can protest his innocence on the prison wing, just like everyone else in prison who is 'innocent' <_<
What you need to do now however is to go and speak with your GP and see if you can be put in touch with a support group or have some counselling, you will need to build yourself up to be emotionally strong for the trial, if he does not take a plea bargain.If he takes a plea bargain, he is admitting guilt in exchange for a lesser sentance and lesser charge, but it means you wont have to speak in court.If he pleads innocent you will have to go to trial, where basically it is your word against his.The police would have run through things with you, and if when you go to court, you have evdience of any injuries sustained from the attack, (the police will have taken photos at your interview) if he does not have an alibi ect, then this will all go in your favour , but at the end of the day a jury of 12 people will decide.From his violent history and his GBH charge though it doesnt look very clever for him at the moment.The trial may also not be for quite a while perhaps even a good few months, it would be really helpful for you if you had a look at this website called The Sapphire, it explains what happens in a trial and what you are likely to have to deal with.
http://www.met.police.uk/sapphire/index.htm
For now though please make sure you speak with your GP ask for help if you feel panicky or depressed, its completly normal to feel like this and there is lots of help available!

dont be afarid to ask for help, you havent done anything wrong here, you are not the one who has committed a crime, and you are the one who is going to go to court and hopefully see this monster put behind bars where he cannot hurt anybody else.Please be brave, the sapphire site link i gave you will give you a ton of info and what to expect and will have lots of helpline numbers you can ring for support, anytime you need to chat im always here, you you can contact me and i can give you the addy of my support group, good luck, you are doing the right thing, although it may be very scary for you, it really is the right thing you are doing, get a support netowrk, a good counsellor and hold your head up high, you are brave and strong and you have lots and lots of people on your side here.
Bright Blessings

Snoopy

**diana_holbourn** · 8 November 2004, 09:03 PM

Something else you might be able to do, Tara, before the trial, is to get a restraining order against him to stop him coming within a certain distance of you. If he breaks it, you can call the police and have him arrested. If you go to your citizens' advice bureau, they should be able to give you advice on solicitors you can contact for a free consultation about this.

If he threatens you by phone, tell the police and ask if the calls can be recorded. If he does, this in itself can be an imprisonable offence. Perhaps you could also ask the police if they could provide you with any extra security for your home. I'd advise you to buy an attack alarm, and to carry a mobile phone with you so you can at least call 999 if he comes near you.

I don't know if anyone would be allowed to bring up your ex-partner's violent history in court. If you see a solicitor about an injunction to keep him away from you, perhaps you should ask him if he knows what the position on that would be at the same time.

**tara** · 9 November 2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Snoopyseed@8th November 2004 - 07:10 PM
Hello Tara first of all i offer my sympathy towards you and the situation you are in.I want to also say well done for going to the police , it never is easy to report these things and takes so much courage to actually step inside the police station and make a statment.From what you are saying about this man he is very violent and after being in court over 18 times it seems highly liklely that this guy is a repeat offender, which means ultimatly that he is likely to do it again.I really do hope that this time justice is served and he ends up doing a long custodial sentence.It is quite common for men to deny that they have commited rape, often telling their friends and family that the accuser is lying.Freinds and family are going to beleive him when he says he has not raped you because it is very difficult for friends and family to see one of their own doing this kind of crime, many rapists often lie to their friends and family ,and obviously friends and family are going to stick with him and defend him as they do not want to see someone they care about go to prison.This is always the first line of defence and something that unfortunatly most survivors of rape have to put up with.Most people view rape as an evil despicable crime and they do not want to think about one of their friends or family commiting this type of crime.Please do not concern yourself with this though because you have made a statement, and he is on remand, let him do what he is doing in prison, he can protest his innocence on the prison wing, just like everyone else in prison who is 'innocent' <_<
What you need to do now however is to go and speak with your GP and see if you can be put in touch with a support group or have some counselling, you will need to build yourself up to be emotionally strong for the trial, if he does not take a plea bargain.If he takes a plea bargain, he is admitting guilt in exchange for a lesser sentance and lesser charge, but it means you wont have to speak in court.If he pleads innocent you will have to go to trial, where basically it is your word against his.The police would have run through things with you, and if when you go to court, you have evdience of any injuries sustained from the attack, (the police will have taken photos at your interview) if he does not have an alibi ect, then this will all go in your favour , but at the end of the day a jury of 12 people will decide.From his violent history and his GBH charge though it doesnt look very clever for him at the moment.The trial may also not be for quite a while perhaps even a good few months, it would be really helpful for you if you had a look at this website called The Sapphire, it explains what happens in a trial and what you are likely to have to deal with.
http://www.met.police.uk/sapphire/index.htm
For now though please make sure you speak with your GP ask for help if you feel panicky or depressed, its completly normal to feel like this and there is lots of help available! dont be afarid to ask for help, you havent done anything wrong here, you are not the one who has committed a crime, and you are the one who is going to go to court and hopefully see this monster put behind bars where he cannot hurt anybody else.Please be brave, the sapphire site link i gave you will give you a ton of info and what to expect and will have lots of helpline numbers you can ring for support, anytime you need to chat im always here, you you can contact me and i can give you the addy of my support group, good luck, you are doing the right thing, although it may be very scary for you, it really is the right thing you are doing, get a support netowrk, a good counsellor and hold your head up high, you are brave and strong and you have lots and lots of people on your side here.
Bright Blessings
Snoopy

Quoted post

**tara** · 9 November 2004, 10:55 AM

thank you so much for the response it really helps to talk. I am seeing a counsellor on Friday this week - I have been put in touch with Rape Crisis in Derby who have been very understanding. Regarding my ex-partners past and yourself and diane mentioning it - I am aware that his past cannot be discussed as it is not relevant although he is quite lightly to bring up mine - does that mean that it opens up the door to discuss this in court? further more this is a little embarrasing for me but I have to ask sadly my ex-partner has evidence from the start of our relationship of sexual intercourse on video similar to (Angel comments earlier this year) I was forced to do things sexually with him that I did not like but if I didnt do as I was told he would get mad - apparantly the courts will be calling me a sexual predator - i dont understand how this can be - they say it can be used in court and I need to make statements about my sex life how many partners I have had maybe talk to my ex-ex-partner about how I was sexually (I was with my ex-ex-partner 8 years) he has a new partner now and I dont want to have to drag him into this - he is my best friend now and is hurting so much for me but I just dont know how to talk to him about this as it is not how I am.

It makes me feel ill that the police have had to watch this video I have been trying to get it back for months but my ex- always hid it from me and threatened to send it to friends and family. I have to make a further statement very soon about my sexual conduct with my ex- and I dont think I can go through with it - they say I may have to watch this video too - its destroying me. Its not the content as its not bad but its just seeing him. I was the one to bring the video up as the night he raped me he made me tell the camera I wanted to make love to him - I was very distraught but he was threatening me with a metal bar above his head - I had too - When I went to the police I said all they had to do was find the video and they would see that I was forced - he didnt film the rape. Sadly they found the tape but without me on it the night of the rape - the police believe that he did this to intimidate me.

Furthermore since he has been in prison he has written to me four times I have passed the letters on to the CID whom say that he is a fool as there is so much content of emotional blackmail and indirect threats - can he look at time for this then? I still care about him and hate him at the same time - he says he still loves me in letters obviously stating that Im a liar too

I have witnesses who have made statements for when they have seen him hit me in the past - seen my bruising on my face etc. Also on the night of the incident people have made statements stating how scared I was of him but I dont know if this is enough as I said the last person to see me will not get involved (she is a friend of his) and he has said in his letters that he has got people to make statements proving that I went with him willingly. I wasnt dragged no but I was told to do as I was told and go with him - he has controlled me for so long I didnt know what to do - I feel that maybe I should have tried to run away but you see he doesnt care who sees him hit me and I was so scared. When people have tried to get involved in the past he would just threaten them or even give them a bit of a warning tap/sometimes hit them - people just let him get on with it

What kind of questions do you think they will ask me about that video in court - how can that be relevant? I feel like I have lost all my dignity and dont want to be looked at like dirt in the court room. My statement is well over 50 pages long now with all the incidents he has comitted against me I have told them everything. But surely even if I didnt go with him in a struggle then regardless what he did was rape if I said no?

Do you know what happened with Angel' case in september? her case was so similar to mine - I would love to get in contact with her - can I forward my details to her? thanks for everything both of you Im just so confused and dont know how im gonna get through this but it really helps to talk. thank you so much

**Snoopyseed** · 9 November 2004, 05:01 PM

One thing that you need to be aware of regarding this video, is that it doesnt matter what type of sex life you have had, that is your personal business.Highly promiscuos women are still raped , protsitutes are raped also, their sex life and what thye do behind closed doors bares no relevance to the fact that thye have been raped.Prostitutes (and im by no means saying you are a prostitue here, im just using this as an example) have been campaiging for fair treatment from police for years.It doesnt matter how many partners you have had, or what sexual activity you have take part in, it doesnt give anyone any right to rape you.I cannot say that the tape will be emmitted as evidence in court or not, but you have to speak with those who are supporting you such as Victim Support, and ask them how you are going to be in court, if you do not feel comfortable with anything speak to the relevant people beforehand, you have been raped and need time to recover and heal, you dont need any more stress than necessary.If the tape is brought up in court to portray you as a sexual predator, then tell them the truth.You are a women who is entitled to live her life how she wants, if the videos show you having sex to which you have consented, then remeber that there is nothing wrong with this.Sex is sacred between two people who love each other, and if you consented to the sex on the video say you feel no shame about pleasing your willing partner, as it between the two of you behind closed doors and in private.However rape is something you did not consent to, you were very frightened and feared for your safety, rape is something that you did not want nor did you willingly participate.Point out that we are all entitled to have a sex life, but it doesnt make it any less of a rape just because you are not a virgin.In fact the biggest people liklely to rape another is a persons partner.Husbands and partners who rape their partners are amongst the biggest sector of rapists, in a survey over 80% of victims said thye knew their attacker and over half of this number said their attacker was their partner/husband.Just because someone is going out with you and has had sex with you previoulsy, gives them no right to rape you if thye so wish.Be prepared about the tape, know that you have done nothing wrong, and speak to those who will support you through the trial to get specilaist advice on the area.Good luck.
Ps about your partners history i didnt mean that you could bring it up in court, i thought in a previous post you said he was also on a GBH charge as well as being on remand for rape, so is this is the case it will be noted, as he has committed another violent offence whislt already on a GBH charge.

Bright Blessings
Snoopy

**tara** · 9 November 2004, 05:20 PM

thanks so much for the reply yes he is on bail for GBH at the moment his court date was two weeks ago but it was adjourned - cps tried to include this but the judge said it was not relevant. Regardles of this will it be noted? - I have been doing a lot of research today and discovered that so few people get justice - I am so scared that I will go through all of this and gain no justice - I have also seen all the laws and rights that I have - its discusting that he can see all the statements and mine, and I cannot see anything that he has stated or witnesses that he might have. Why is the law like this? I cannot be sure whether I am doing the right thing after everything I have read on the internet the last couple of days. It seems that very very few people get justice and nearly none when it comes to ex-partner rape.

There is so much that happened during the rape but another is that he forced me to take illegal substances when I declined he punched me ion the face giving me a nose bleed and forced me to take the substances with followed by me having several panic attackes during and afetr the rape for the next 24 hours. He is now stating that I took the substances with me and took them willingly - the amount he made me take was so ridiculous that I am suprised that I lived thourhg it! My further concerns are that the defence may say that I was unable to rmember for instance what had happened due to the amount of drugs taken - this is not the case but I dont know how to defend myself there.

**diana_holbourn** · 9 November 2004, 08:25 PM

The rules have changed a bit recently and I don't think the defence will be able to get away with as much as they used to. But I expect they'll still ask you the worst questions they can get away with. Did you tell anyone before the rape that he had taped you doing sexual things you didn't want to? I'm not sure whether they'd admit that as evidence, but it could be evidence of the fact that he'd sexually coerced you in the past as well as when he raped you, as well as that the video doesn't really depict you as a sexual predator.

You'd have to discuss the law about sending abusive letters with a solicitor or the citizens advice bureau, I think; I don't know what the law is on that, although I think people can be charged with criminal offences if it's bad; but if he phones you and says abusive things, that's a criminal offence that you can read more about here: http://www.wiredsafety.org/gb/stalking/

Maybe you could ask the people he's threatened if they'd be prepared to go to the police and testify as witnesses if they know he can be charged with a criminal offence if they can prove he's threatened them again. If they'd be prepared to ask to have their calls recorded so they will have evidence of any phone calls any of his friends make to them on his behalf, or any he somehow manages to make from prison if he can, then that'll be good evidence against him. Some mobile phone companies keep records of text messages, I think, in case the police want them, so you could see if yours does if he has ever threatened you that way, or if he's threatened any of them that way, they could see if theirs do.

I think the defence would probably try to stop the GBH charge being mentioned and will probably succeed because they'll argue that it could prejudice the jury against him; but perhaps you ought to check that out with a solicitor.

I'd advise you to speak to the people at Rape Crisis about what you're likely to have to face in court, because hopefully they'll have the most up-to-date information about what tends to be allowed and not allowed now.

If the defence say you probably can't remember what happened due to the amount of substances you took, remind them that they weren't sedatives. If there is photographic evidence of your bruises, they at least won't be able to claim you imagined everything.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have Angel's email address any more. She didn't say what happened in her trial in the end.

Let us know how you get on in your trial.

And perhaps you ought to find out about self-defence classes in your area.

Here are a list of self-defence tips from the BBC website. I posted it on here once before as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/prevention/selfdefence.shtml

**Snoopyseed** · 9 November 2004, 09:13 PM

When you go to court, it is not you that has to defend yourself.Its the person who did this to you that will have to defend themselves.I dont know what is going to happen in court, and i cannot advise you on what to say or do about anything the court is likely to bring up.The best thing you can do is to contact your Victim Support officer and speak to them about your worries.
As for going to court, unfortunatly and contradictory to popular beleif many victims actually do not get justice, it is a sad case of afairs yes, and you will have to weigh up the costs involved for you going to court, both emotionally and financially (you may need time off work) againts how you feel about gaining justice.This man needs to be stopped and the only person right now that has a chance of doing this is you.Speak to your counsellor as well as Victim Support and get as much advise and help as possible, the bigger your support system the more likley you are going to come out of this truama with your emotional wellbeing intact.
Going to court can be scary, but not as scary as the possibility that this man walks free and commits another horrific crime.
Snoopy

**tara** · 10 November 2004, 01:54 PM

Hit there thanks for the response regarding your comments re text message threats direct to me - yes the police have both my company phone and my personal phone and contacted the network provider for all relavent texts.

Is it right that if the defence bring up my past then that enables us to bring up his?

You asked me about whether they took pitures of me during the medical - no they didnt but they measured all the bruising and marked it out on a diagram of my body. Is this relevant?

Emotionally no I dont think im going to cope but I do have a tremendous amount of support and thankfully also by my employers whom have told me to take as much time as I need regardless I have been coming to work - I have worked too hard to achieve what I have in my career to throw it all away but it is hard. The way I see it - yes this is destroying me and is not getting any better but regardless of whether I go through this or not - this feeling will never go away its changed me for life now.

Do you think I should get a solicitor I know that the cps have told me that it is not necessary and that I am not on trial - I really dont want to leave anything out I want him behind bars and convicted for this I know I only have an 8% chance but at least thats something - Im having a better day today - ups and downs Im sure you can tell from my messages - one day I feel positive the next wanting to give up and give in.

You mentioned about witnesses whom have had threats to make statements. There has been two although the first one well it might be a problem - I went to Mauritius this year with my ex he didnt like this guy and his partner - he said that he was flirting with me which was not the case the man was on his honeymoon but he threatened him - the couple have made a statement and the other couple we met there have too as sadly more terrible things happened to me there - aparantly the laws are different when things were conducted abroad - these people have all made really valuable statements might they not be able to use these in court?

My second witness was my 15 year old brother whos life was threatened with a knife - he has made a statement (video) and the police were called that night by neighbours whom also made statements. But can all this be included in the case about him - obviously it is past in our relationship not that night?

**Saffron** · 10 November 2004, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by tara@10th November 2004 - 01:54 PM

I really dont want to leave anything out I want him behind bars and convicted for this I know I only have an 8% chance but at least thats something - Im having a better day today - ups and downs Im sure you can tell from my messages - one day I feel positive the next wanting to give up and give in.

Quoted post

Hi Tara

In order to try and offer you some reassurance, the defence cannot bring up any aspect of your sex life when they cross question you, but they are free to question you on any other aspect of your past.

The conviction rate for rapes that are actually brought to trial is far higher than 8% - more like 60-80%. The figure you have quoted is the percentage of rapes that actually happen, but for one reason or another either do not get reported or do not get taken to trial.

I think you are very courageous for doing this, and wish you all the best. As you quite rightly point out, if you do not do everything you can to put him behind bars, he will be free to do this to someone else.

Good luck,

Saffron

**diana_holbourn** · 10 November 2004, 06:08 PM

Tara,

I think a lot will depend on how good the prosecution are. The defence will probably apply to have all kinds of things brought up or disallowed if they know their stuff well, and whether they're successful or not may depend to a large extent on how well the prosecution can argue to stop them. But I'm not sure about this. I think you ought to ask the CPS to let you see a solicitor who has experience of what happens in court.

The defence can apply to the judge to have your sexual history brought up, but they have to argue that it's going to be relevant first. However, lots of barristers are good at this.

Since you got the bruises on the night of the rape, they will be considered admissible evidence. The defence might be instructed by your ex-partner to try to insinuate that they were bruises he inflicted on you in self-defence or that you wanted to be beaten up because you're a masochist, though. So any witnesses who can testify about how scared you were of him will be crucial as long as what they say is allowed in evidence. But any text messages he sent regarding the rape should certainly be able to be brought up, I think. So I hope he's incriminated himself!

I don't know what the rules are regarding the situations in which the prosecution will be allowed to bring up his sexual history or anything else in his past.

The newspapers report the conviction rate in rape cases to be very low, but that actually includes the number of women who report rapes but then give up before the trial because they're so discouraged about their chances or whatever. (If the number of rapes that are believed to take place but go unreported altogether was included in the percentage, the figure would be much lower still.) But once you get to trial, the chances of conviction are about 60% or more.

**tara** · 11 November 2004, 04:36 PM

Hi all, firstly I want to thank you for putting baz in touch with me (CPS) that really helped me alot - I have been gathering alot more information and feeling a little more confident today. I cant tell you how happy I was to see that should this case go to trial that I have a 60% chance of winning.
I cant help but go on and on about the rape its become an obsession personally. its not that I talk to everyone about it I just want to know everything and be prepared and sure that everything has been covered.

I also read that CPS dont employ senior barristers to take on these cases as they are short of funds? and that the defence are usually paid far more than the prosecution? Do I have any rights to pay for someone else? does that sometimes happen? - I dont care how much it will cost, I have to see this man behind bars, and I want the best chance at it. I also have only just realised that the case could still be dropped - the police never told me that they just said that CPS had accepted and that the plea date was in january - so it still could be dropped - even though he is on remand there should be plenty of evidence in order to have kept him in. I will see what CPS say to me when I get through to them.

If anyone has been through the court proceedure and can talk to me about it just to help me get prepared please get in touch I would really appreciate it - I have read alot about it but actually being in contact with someone would really help me. Im so worried.

I will be seeing rape crisis tomorrow for my first appointment not really sure what Im going to say to them - not really sure I want to allow myself to get upset - I just want to try and be strong but its sometimes too much - right now I feel that if I get upset again I wont come back from it. I already suffered from depression earlier this year and dont want to go back there - it was a terribel experience.

Its been 40 days now since it happened my period has never come I hope that this is stress its too much to think about being anything else right now - I dont know why I am saying all of this. Im sorry if Im going on but it just seems to help me through the day. thanks for everything really sorry x

**Saffron** · 11 November 2004, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by tara@11th November 2004 - 04:36 PM

I also read that CPS dont employ senior barristers to take on these cases as they are short of funds? and that the defence are usually paid far more than the prosecution? Do I have any rights to pay for someone else? does that sometimes happen? - I dont care how much it will cost, I have to see this man behind bars, and I want the best chance at it. I also have only just realised that the case could still be dropped - the police never told me that they just said that CPS had accepted and that the plea date was in january - so it still could be dropped - even though he is on remand there should be plenty of evidence in order to have kept him in. I will see what CPS say to me when I get through to them.

Quoted post

Hi Tara

I don't think you need to worry about the quality of the prosecution barrister - I would guess that your ex partner is on legal aid, and therefore his barrister is more likely to be "cheap" (although as we all know, no barrister comes cheap, but i am sure you know what I mean). Many very skillful barristers work for the CPS, but it may be worth asking whether the one appointed to you is a specialist in rape cases. Baz will be able to advise you.

Saffron

**tara** · 11 November 2004, 05:50 PM

Saffron, thanks for the response - no he is not on legal aid - although he has lost his job through this but I know that he has a lot of financial backing through his friends and family. Also his solicitor he has is one of the best in our area.

Will his solicitor appear at the trial?

thanks for all your help

Tara

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