HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOUVE BEEN RAPED

[Denis]

I am the father of 3 daughters. I am devorced and my ex-wife doesn't really discuss anything with our daughters. My eldest daughter, who is now 22, was a virgin up to the age of 21 when I believe she was raped. She had no sexual expierences at all up to that point. I had always been close to my children but I had been argueing with my eldest daughter over her drinking. She had started to drink through depression, not heavily but I felt I had to step in. One day she had been drinking in the afternoon and I told her that if she didn't come home by 7, I would lock her out. She didn't come home so I locked her out and I went out for the evening. That night, the barman offered to let her spend the night at his flat. he knew she had a drink problem so bought a bottle of Jack Daniels. He kept telling her to "drink up" and pored another. They went to his bedroom. He removed her underwear. He performed oral sex on her and then had sexual intercoarse with her (without a condom). She just laid there and waited for him to finish. He done this again in the night and again in the morning. On all occasions she said NO. he said it would be alright and went ahead. I asked my daughter did you want to have sex, she said NO. I asked, did you tell him no and did he hear you, she said yes. I asked, did you, at any time, consent to having sex with him, she said no. I asked if she wanted him inside her, she said no. She says she wasn't raped, he didn't force her. The details I have given, my daughter has told me. WAS SHE RAPED ? This is tearing me apart, can anyone PLEASE help ! ! !

[Ashley]

Hello Denis,

In the circumstances described there is no doubt an offence of rape has been made out. Whether or not there could be a successful prosecution is another matter entirely, but that was not your question.

[Denis]

Originally posted by Ashley@2nd November 2004 - 07:03 PM
Hello Denis,

In the circumstances described there is no doubt an offence of rape has been made out. Whether or not there could be a successful prosecution is another matter entirely, but that was not your question.

Quoted post

Thank you so much for your prompt reply. My daughter and I now need to try and deal with this. I am having more problems dealing with it than my daughter is. She said she just wants to forget about it and move on. I am angry at her for putting herself in such a position. I don't blame her because obviously she has the right, like any woman, to say no and have that wish respected, but I just wish she hadn't put herself in such a dangerous podition.

[diana_holbourn]

Perhaps your daughter could do with some therapy for her depression. There's some information about effective therapies for depression here: Depression.

[Saffron]

Originally posted by diana_holbourn@2nd November 2004 - 07:03 PM
Perhaps your daughter could do with some therapy for her depression. There's some information about effective therapies for depression here: Depression.

Quoted post

With the greatest respect to Diana (who I know to be a very wise lady) therapy only works if the person undergoing therapy actually wants to have it.

I echo Ashley's opinion - that if your daughter said "no", then it was certainly rape. I can't imagine how you must feel as a father - totally powerless and utterly impotent, at a guess. I know that if it was my daughter, I would wish it had been me instead of her.

The best thing you can do for your daughter is be there for her. You can't force her to confront her ordeal, or make her go to the police. In fact the more you encourage her to do so, the more she may dig her heels in. It sounds to me as though she is in denial (although I hasten to explain that I am not a doctor, and therfore cannot be certain). However, I would say that the only thing you can do is be there for her, and pick up the pieces as and when she needs you to. If she does decide to go to the police, she will need every ounce of support you can muster.

I can't really think of what to say, except that my thoughts are with you.

Saffron

[diana_holbourn]

Perhaps I should have phrased what I said slightly differently and said: Maybe you should suggest to your daughter that she goes to therapy for her depression and inform her of what she can expect from a good therapist.

[Denis]

Originally posted by diana_holbourn@2nd November 2004 - 08:03 PM
Perhaps your daughter could do with some therapy for her depression. There's some information about effective therapies for depression here: Depression.

Quoted post

Thanks for your advice but, with upmost of respect, her depression was short lived. The problem is her wanting to forget or dismiss the fact that she has lost her virginity outside of a relationship. She says that she said NO at least 3 times but insists it wasn't rape. She's implied there was little or no point in resisting. Surely it is for her to say if she was raped or not. I feel so confused.

[diana_holbourn]

The reason I didn't focus on the issue in question was that I thought your question had already been answered, and that I think that, no matter how hard you find it, you should try to take your own focus of attention off it. Yes, if she said no, it was rape. She shouldn't blame herself in any way. He acted unscrupulously by manipulating her and taking advantage of her, and by rights he ought to be called to account. However, If she wants to forget everything, then it would be unkind to try to force her to relive it or do something about it. I think the most compassionate thing you can do for her is to allow her to do what she wants in this matter. Otherwise, you could be dragging her through an unnecessarily distressing experience. Ideally, she would accept it as rape and go to the police and have this man prosecuted. But unless things have changed radically recently, he probably wouldn't be convicted, especially since she went to his room willingly and she was drunk so her memory of things would be hazy anyway. Of course, he would deny that she said no, maybe tell other lies, and assert that she drank the whisky willingly. The fact that she was drinking habitually at the time would come up, and she'd leave the court feeling as if she'd been made out to have a bad character.

Of course, he might be convicted nevertheless. But it's a big decision to take someone to the police for a crime like that because of the possible distress a trial will cause, so whatever you do, don't take a heavy-handed approach with her about the matter.

Sometimes, people don't accept something as rape because they're in denial, because to accept that they've been taken advantage of and their trust has been betrayed is an upsetting thing that causes emotional pain that they'd rather do without.

Perhaps the best thing you can do is to give her an URL of a website where she can get counselling if she ever does decide it's caused issues in her life that she wants to deal with. If she's in England or Wales, she can find a list of helplines of local rape crisis centres at http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/helplinenumbers.htm and there are links to lists of helplines in Scotland and Ireland there.

Of course, without knowing any more about the circumstances, it seems to me that it is just possible that she made the story up because she was angry with you for locking her out or wanted to make you realise the impact that doing such things can have. But be careful about approaching her with that idea, because if it did happen, then for you to hint that you're suspicious of her story could be distressing for her and feel as if you've let her down.

What appears to be coming across in your post is that what you're most concerned about is that she's taking the loss of her virginity with such flippancy. Teenagers and young adults don't see it as having the same significance nowadays that they might have done 50 years ago. It doesn't have any shame attached to it any more. However, if you're concerned that she might treat sex casually in the future, tell her you wouldn't be happy if she was to do that because of the risks involved. It may be that she has no intention of treating sex casually though, especially if she hasn't before.