Niece assaulted - friends lying, police a joke - advice please!

[James101]

I have just been informed my niece has been date raped at the weekend. She is a 16yr old virgin who went out with two "friends" and their 19yr old car driving male friend. Seems like one of her friends called another male and set my niece up with him. Short version is, alcohol purchased, niece ends up very drunk indeed, in car alone with man, he has sex with her. Have seen many other posts from women asking the question "I was really drunk, is this rape". Answer seems to be if you are incapable of giving consent then this is rape. My niece's memory is very vague but is adamant she did not want this to happen. Self referral to rape centre has confirmed she was a virgin prior to this (police never advised this option) which is already contradicting the lies her two "friends" are concocting to cover themselves.

Comments from police officer investigating include gems such as "You knew what you were doing when you got on the back seat didn't you?" and "I've interviewed (the alleged rapist) and he seems like a decent sort".

Police have treated my niece like a liar and seem reluctant to investigate. I have got involved, made a formal complaint and am insisting a new officer interviews the other parties incl the man under formal caution at police station.

Does any one else have any useful advice to offer?

[RFLH]

Apart from keeping on at them I can't think of anything else - but I'm sure that someone else will.

Has she been to a rape crisis centre or contacted one? They should be able to advise you.

Don't take the law into your own hands, tempting though it is.

I hope your neice has got help to see a counsellor, I should think that she should do.

This is the trouble with people who make false allegations, it makes those that have been assaulted doubted - and that just isn't fair.

I guess they have to question her hard to see if her statement alters.

[James101]

Many thanks for your kind comments. I'd like to believe the police actually gave a toss - what is coming across v clearly is that they want this to go away - prob a bit too much work for them to prove. The amazing thing is that my nieces friends have already dramatically changed their stories and are clearly lying - we have found several obvious inconsistencies in their stories yet the investigating officer seems to be of the attitude that a 16 yr old virgin would enjoy rough sex (as indicated by the external and internal bruising). Not only that but that after one bout of rough sex she then asked for it again. This is what the alleged rapist has said. Is it me or does this sound implausible. Never realised how much the odds were stacked against rape victims. Will not be letting this lie - formal complaint has gone in and request for new officer to reinterview. I would be very interested to hear from anyone else who has run into disbelieving police and how, if at all, they overcame this.

[Rights Fighter]

I have just been informed my niece has been date raped at the weekend. She is a 16yr old virgin who went out with two "friends" and their 19yr old car driving male friend. Seems like one of her friends called another male and set my niece up with him. Short version is, alcohol purchased, niece ends up very drunk indeed, in car alone with man, he has sex with her. Have seen many other posts from women asking the question "I was really drunk, is this rape". Answer seems to be if you are incapable of giving consent then this is rape. My niece's memory is very vague but is adamant she did not want this to happen. Self referral to rape centre has confirmed she was a virgin prior to this (police never advised this option) which is already contradicting the lies her two "friends" are concocting to cover themselves.

Comments from police officer investigating include gems such as "You knew what you were doing when you got on the back seat didn't you?" and "I've interviewed (the alleged rapist) and he seems like a decent sort".

Police have treated my niece like a liar and seem reluctant to investigate. I have got involved, made a formal complaint and am insisting a new officer interviews the other parties incl the man under formal caution at police station.

Does any one else have any useful advice to offer?

I've dealt with I really don't know how many cases and reviewed medical reports written on behalf of complainants, by experts.

I have yet to come across one that can categorically state that the complainant was a virgin prior to the alleged assault. I don't think that is actually physically possible.

[James101]

Thank you - very useful to know that.

[Rights Fighter]

Many thanks for your kind comments. I'd like to believe the police actually gave a toss - what is coming across v clearly is that they want this to go away - prob a bit too much work for them to prove. The amazing thing is that my nieces friends have already dramatically changed their stories and are clearly lying - we have found several obvious inconsistencies in their stories yet the investigating officer seems to be of the attitude that a 16 yr old virgin would enjoy rough sex (as indicated by the external and internal bruising). Not only that but that after one bout of rough sex she then asked for it again. This is what the alleged rapist has said. Is it me or does this sound implausible. Never realised how much the odds were stacked against rape victims. Will not be letting this lie - formal complaint has gone in and request for new officer to reinterview. I would be very interested to hear from anyone else who has run into disbelieving police and how, if at all, they overcame this.

I am amazed that the police have this attitude. As RFLH says your niece (or an appropriate adult) can request that another OIC takes over. Have they instructed a suitable medical expert to undertake a formal examination? If not they should have done as soon as possible after the incident.

If none of your complainants are adhered to then a letter to the chief constable might help. I would also suggest that your niece goes to the local A & E department with an appropriate adult and make her complaint there, requesting a medical examination. This needs to be done asap as any bruising/tears or other injuries heal up very quickly in the genital area area.

[isi]

Hi James,

I am sorry about what happened to your niece and its no surprise you sound really angry. How is she? Does she want to take this any further?

When your niece saw the doctor was it to take dna samples? has she got a copy of the report from the doctor? Yes it would be very hard to tell if someone was a virgin after intercourse has already taken place.

As for the police, well I am gobsmacked and I appologise now as I dont know what to say that would be much help. Was the crime reported straight away? Was it a specialist rape team who delt with your niece? Did they take a written statement or a video statement? and what has happened to the suspect?

I would not call those girls her friends, they are not friends of hers if they are willing to stick up for a rapist. Unfortunately girls seem to blame girls for being raped, maybe because they dont like to accept that it does happen or they are not fully aware of what rape is, just because she got in the back of the car with him does not mean he can have sex with her.

Talking to your niece and about what she want is the best thing to do, making sure she is in control of what she wants to do and giving her all the options possible.

Good luck

[James101]

Re the previous posts - my niece was taken to a specialist rape centre where a full forensic analysis was conducted. Part of my formal complaint is that this was not suggested immediately by the police, rather left to the family to sort out. This indicates to me that straight from the start, judgements had been made about what happened. Apparently her hymen was torn and the specialist conducting the examination felt that due to the bleeding seen and internal bruising that this had happened very recently, thereby contradicting the suggestion from her friends that she was already promiscuous. As to her "friends" I imagine they are fully aware of how they have contributed to this situation and are frantically trying to cover themselves. Already we are catching them contradicting themselves. I can't wait to talk to the new officer on the case. He will find me a very different kettle of fish to my sister and niece.

[Rights Fighter]

I am astonished that the police did not immediately take her to a "rape suite" or to a paediatric unit of a local hospital to be examined by a gynaecologist / paediatrician. I certainly believe that that this may be genuine cause for a serious complaint.

Having my case-review hat on I will say......

.....a "torn" hymen does not necessarily mean that this was the "first time" although accompanied by bleeding and bruising suggests that either it was, or the person who was responsible was too big for her, and/or that force was used.

Signs of tears, notches, lumps and bumps can all be part and parcel of "wear and tear" (if the subject admits to being sexual active) for want of a better explanation, as well as a sign of "penetration by a blunt object" without permission - rape.

It also can depend on where they appear on the hymeneal orifice. Medical experts can gauge quite a bit from where the signs are: they view the hymeneal orifice as though it is a clock with 6 at the bottom of the orifice. Any damage from say 4 o'clock position to 8 o'clock position will be indicative of penetration by a blunt object.

What is also important is the size of the hymeneal orifice. This usually equates to 1mm per year of a pubescent girl. So in your niece's case it would be around 16mm or 1.6cm give or take a millimetre or so either side.

You can research this on the internet. I've learned what I know by reading medical reports for Crown and Defence and also text books that are accepted by Crown courts and Court of Appeal written by experts. The one in general use for legal purposes is "The Physical Signs of Sexual Abuse of Children". The latest (3rd) edition was submitted this year, 2009, and written/produced by Royal College of Physicians, London.

I think that a letter to the Chief Constable would be a good start. Your MP might be another helpful contact.

[James101]

Thank you for this info. I too am absolutely astonished at the attitude of the police and that they did not immediately have her taken to a rape suite. I have spoken with my niece directly now and two things are clear 1) she had never had penetrative sex before of any kind and b) she definitelydid not want to have sex with this guy. Re the police - I am too so astonished that I can barely think straight. My sister tells me that after interviewing my niece alone in the kitchen of their house, she was called into the kitchen where the CID officer stated "So we are all agreed it's not rape". This is before he had even interviewed the accused guy or my niece's two friends. I cannot believe that the guy was interviewed at home in what seems to have been more of a chat than an interrogation about a serious allegation. My niece says that throughout her "interview" in the kitchen the suggestion was that she was "up for it" and was already sexually active. I thought specially trained officers such as this where supposed to be sympathetic and ensure the victim feels believed. The officer's comment that her two friends said she had chlamydia will soon be disproved, further demonstrating that they are lying.

[Saffron]

Hi James

this is awful. Unfortunately for your niece, it sounds as though she is being bundled in with the cases that are classed as "post-coital regret" and they have not done an iota of genuine investigation. Plod should have taken her to a rape suite immediately and should have ordered a full exam on the spot. She should not have been interviewed in the kitchen, all on her own! Sounds like they are just trying to make the case "go away" so that they can have an easy life. Can I ask for a general indication of where you live? (not specifics, just "countryside" or "town" will do!) The reason I ask is that it seems to me that city police tend to investigate allegations of rape more thoroughly than country bobbies. To a large extent it seems to be a postcode lottery.

You have received some good advice from the others, I can't add to it in a practical way, but I wanted to say Welcome.

[Rights Fighter]

Extract:My sister tells me that after interviewing my niece alone in the kitchen of their house, she was called into the kitchen where the CID officer stated "So we are all agreed it's not rape".

Pardon? She should have been interviewed either at plod shop of at a special suite even if there was no medical done by a gynae instructed by the police (should have been in any event). Complainant's interviews should be undertaken under certain conditions according to PACE guidelines and in the case of a vulnerable witness (the nature of the allegation and your niece's age qualifies her as such) she should have undertaken a ABE = Achieving Best Evidence interview where the officer is specially trained to do such an interview.

If penetration has occurred and it was without consent then that is rape.

At her age the interview should have been conducted with an appropriate adult present - in the appropriate place with in line with the ABE Guidelines. I really do not understand this at all.

Something is not right somewhere. Can her mother not, as the next of kin/guardian request sight of all paperwork available so far? If not then your niece might be able to instruct her own solicitor (she should be eligible for funding) so the sols can request all copies of paperwork to see what is going on.

Something is not right somewhere.

[goddess]

hi

pardon me for butting in,but i was a virgin prior to being raped,i dont know why u say its not possible.

I've dealt with I really don't know how many cases and reviewed medical reports written on behalf of complainants, by experts.

I have yet to come across one that can categorically state that the complainant was a virgin prior to the alleged assault. I don't think that is actually physically possible.

[Rights Fighter]

I was referring to medical reports after the complainant has been medically examined - not the fact that the complainant claimed that she was a virgin prior to the alleged attack.

After somebody has had sexual intercourse, consensual or not, it would not be possible tell tell for sure that the complainant was a virgin prior to the alleged attack.