False Memory DOES NOT exist

[Unregistered]

False Memory Syndrome is not a "syndrome".
Some people make false allegations.
Some people are wrongly convicted. Someone very close to me was falsely accused of being racially abusive. The accusers changed their story numerous times. It was extremely traumatic to the person falsely accused. It was proved in court that the alledged incident did not happen (in fact, could`nt have happened). The accusers were proved to be liars. Cases reported widely in the press regarding the BFMS (ie the Katrina Fairlie fiasco) do not make clear that the accused were never on trial.

Others make true allegations, with little or no support from the "abuse industry", as it`s been called here. They don`t feel worthy of help because their abusers / rapists have destroyed their self-worth.

There may be evidence of sexual trama occuring in a pre-pubertal child, but no proof as to who did it. That child may grow up being infertile, in daily pain because they were raped as a child. Or the special police constable who was raped by her colleage who is thought to have raped at least 38 women and who was told by her psychiatrist that "oh a policeman would`nt do that" after he was convicted of rape. Adam Carruthers served his sentance for rape, was released from prison (sentanced to 11 years, and served 7)to live with his wife and children - he is now wasting £100,000+ in public money fighting for his full pension. He has been rewarded £2000+ because he "slopped out" in prison. One victim, who has chosen to give up her right to anonymity has had to pay out huge amounts of money in order to keep her home safe from this man.

I pity anyone falsely accused and or convicted of commiting any crime.
I also pity those terrified to disclose rape / abuse because of the undercurrent organisations such as the BFMS is responsible for.

I doubt this will be posted on your site, but I can but hope.

[webmoo]

Hi OP. Apologies for the delay in approving this - I've been offline for a bit.

[Rights Fighter]

I won't get into any arguments with you OP but false memory does exist although I don't believe it is particularly a "syndrome". False memory has been proven to be fact as many tests have been done for several years throughout the world on the subject.

The UK group is http://www.bfms.org.uk/

There are similar groups worldwide.

[isi]

I agree with rf in regards to false memory syndrome

Just to add to the comment about the 'abuse industry' - there are good support networks.... anyone who has been abused will at first not feel worthy of help as you said as half the time they are trying to pretend that it never happened as a survival mechanism or are trying to justify what happened to them to convince themselves that its normal.......

there is help out there for people who are making true alegations and there is support. Please dont scare people in a vulnerable situation into thinking that there is no help! I thought that for many many years until I spoke up.

And who the hell has called it the 'abuse industry' - thats an awful thing to say! very seedy and degrading for the abused, the survivors, the people in need!

[Rights Fighter]

I worked on a case a few years back where one complainant had it drilled into him that his stepfather had abused him. He has no real memory of this but he ended up believing it.

Further controlled tests have been done by way of reminding test subjects of films they have seen and who appeared in them. They were adamant that certain people starred in some and were gobsmacked to they had not.

Also there is the bog standard memory test of teaching somebody something and some time down the line they have been tested on it only to have "remembered" wrongly yet were adamant that they had not.

People who have had protracted "counselling" and therapy sessions who have had sexual abuse suggested to them, denied it, had it drip-fed over time then decided that they "remembered" something when in fat they had not. It's the power of suggestion by people who are intent on "finding" abuse to somebody who is highly suggestible.

False memory is alive and kicking. You may never have experienced this but it does not mean that it does not exist.

[RFLH]

Frederic C Bartlett (1932), Remembering: A study in Experimental and Social Psychology.

Conducted experiments using a short story from a different culture. eg. chinese folk tales, etc

Asked volunteers to read it. Then asked them to recall it. He found they told a slightly different story.They ommitted material that they deemed irrelevant, unfamiliar or inconsistent with their own experience. There were transformations of unfamiliar elements into familiar ones. Also, some details were changed completely to make it seem more rational to the reader.
Bartlett termed this 'effort after meaning'.

He showed that memories are constructed and/or reconstructed with reference to our own knowledge and expectations.


Loftus and Palmer (1974) showed video clips of car accidents to 45 people.

Some were asked "How fast were the cars going when they hit each other?" Other were asked the same question but 'hit' was replaced with verbs 'smashed', 'collided', 'bumped' or 'contacted'.
Estimated speeds increased with the severity of the verb used.
This demonstrated the effect of leading questions.

In a second experiment, 150 participants were asked to view a film showing a multiple car accident.
1/3 were asked 'How fast were the cars going when they smashed into each other?'
1/3 were asked 'How fast when they hit each other?'
1/3 were not asked any question.
One week later, all were questioned.
''Did you see any broken glass?"
In the first third, 32% thought they'd seen glass.
In the second third, 17% thought glass was seen and 12% in the last third.
This is known as the 'misinformation effect'.

Crombag et al (1996) studied memories of a collision of a Boeing 747 into an 11-storey apartment block in Bijlmermeer in Amsterdam.
The TV coverage showed the scene of the crash but when questioned 10 months after the crash, over half of the respondants thought they had seen the plane crash into the building.

They showed that we may be unable to distinguish between memories produced by 'perception of external stimuli' and those produced by 'thought', especially when the event is of a highly dramatic nature.

[frankgallagherwasere]

False memory does exist and is very much alive and kicking, what do you think the Crown Council and accusers use to dupe juries at trial? If an accusation contains enough slander and exaggerations that are left unchallenged it is not surprising Juries convict so many innocent.

One can take false memory to mean many things, but the fact is your mind can play tricks on you sometimes without you even knowing and realising. Whilst as RF said it is also be true others can manipulate it by words and associations that trick you into the belief what they are telling you is the truth - true they said it but not necessarily the truth it happened.

How many believe that what they read about a trial and someones convictions was true???? When in truth the media picks only certain words and some of these might even have been proven to be a lie, yet they dont report that piece of information - just the original accusation.

There are plenty of examples of the use and implementation of false memory by others, it is obviously a skill and mind game and without doubt its real and true.

[Unregistered]

I don't know about false memories. However, I do believe that there are false beliefs which affect jury trials. If a third of the population believe a woman is at least part to blame for being raped if she wares a short skirt then there isn't much hope.

[frankgallagherwasere]

woman is at least part to blame for being raped if she wares a short skirt
That is a sweeping statement and I do not believe the statistics are accurate or even close. It just leaves one asking themselves what were her intentions and purpose not the fact she actually liked looking nice. Many women would be glad to wear a short skirt but dare not cos they believe or have horrible legs and choose to cover them up in public or as with religious beliefs NOT even allowed.

If a parent were to allow their teenage daugher to go out like this are they giving license to anyone to take advantage? Dont be daft. One could then argue they are encouraging illicit activity by the 3rd party and thats plain stupid.

The issues are significantly more complex than this? One has to consider all the facts, has she been drinking, did she willingly goto the house bed, were they in a relationship at the time (even if only on the night) and the big one - was there any consent implied.

I find your post open to serious debate and arguement as it implies its your own view and that your not considering the right of the individual. IN my case my wife was accused of being deviant simply because she chose to wear a short skirt by the crown council (also a women) who thought and suggested wearing holdups and stockings to also be provocative - even though she didnt on the dates applicable it was a sweeping statement as were so many of their (accusers) allegations. Its just a tool the judicial (both sides) use with media sensationalism to abuse hearsay and accusations with exaggerations and allegations.

So it can work both ways should the judicial choose !! They play mind games with words and suggestions I know, but its significantly more complex than you suggest.

[bellygoddess]

Hi frank.Its OUTRAGEOUS that what a woman wears can be considered relevant to her asking to be raped! I hardly think the media would accuse a male victim of rape by another man to have worn provocative looking trousers! when u say one has to consider the facts,what do u mean? what does whether a woman has been drinking or if consent was implied got to do with if a woman was raped or not? A woman may have been drinking,or she may have said yes initially out of terror for her life,or she might have said yes under duress.This is still rape! If a man and woman,(or two men or women as rape happens in gay relationships too) were in a relationship and he have sex with her against her will,it is still rape.why is it that for NO OTHER CRIME,which is what rape is,is the victim partly blamed for causing it? this astounds me! By false memory,are u talking about false memories given to the client during counselling which the client believes to be their own? As thats what i believe it to be.I think ur example with jurors is a slightly different thing,...yes?

[isi]

Well said bellygoddess..

I have been pondering over these specific points of view in other posts. Its very alarming and makes me wonder!

Drinking? relationship? inviting person home willingly? wtf

After having a drink with someone who you are dating inviting them home does not give them the right to rape.

[Saffron]

Absolutely it does not! The way a woman or a man dresses and the volume of alcohol that is consumed is not, in any circumstances an invitation to rape.
I think FG was talking in terms of court cases rather than ethics. And as we all know, in court truth, lies and implications can become horribly twisted.

[friday]

false memory syndrome is not accepted by the dsm-iv (i dont think but correct me if i'm wrong)
HOWEVER much research has been done regarding the power of suggestion e.g if a parent tells a story enough a child may start to create memories.

there are, of course, other explanations for false allegations such as certain personality disorders and other psychiatric disorders.

[Rights Fighter]

I have no idea what dsm-iv is but on Googling it I found this

Comorbidity between DSM-IV alcohol use disorders and major depression: results of a national survey

False memory does exist. I know of cases where a "counsellor" or "therapist" has implanted "memories" during therapy and these have been used to bring false allegations to trial.

One such case is the one relating to a Jim Fairley in Scotland. His daughter later recanted after further counselling by a different person. it took her years to realise that she had not been abused but had had the "memories" implanted.

The Sheildfield nurses case is one of the "biggest" cases where social workers implanted "memories" into very young childrens' mind. they ended up believing there were tunnels under the nursery - none were found of course.

[bellygoddess]

hi

hi,the dsm-IV is the diagnostic criteria for the classification of mental disorders.Ie ocd,and other mental health issues would be classified under this criteria.hope that helps...