Son charged last week - heartbroken

[guttedmum]

I have been following this site for a number of months but never registered just getting some comfort from the reassurances but last week nearly 14 months from the initial allegation my son was charged and I feel my world has fallen apart. I want to support and help him as much as possible but not sure what to do.

Last November 17 my son who was weeks off his 19th birthday had a date with a girl who was a couple of months of her 18th. They went out for a meal and then had a further date the following evening where they came back to our house with pizza. My husband and I were in the kitchen and other members of the family around the house. He offered the choice of staying down to eat or going to his room, she said to go to his room.

To keep it brief, he says thing progressed they had a heavy petting session which she was a willing participant removing her own jeans etc. but as it progressed to moving towards intercourse she didn't want to go further siting it was too early and he would think badly of her, he had said this woudlnt be the case and they then carried on petting again but again she then said she didnt want to go furtehr, so they stopped there.

He is absolutely resolute that no intercourse took place, that is fully consensual throughout with what did took place. They then carried on chatting and laughing until a little time later she said she needed to go home. He drove her home, kissed goodbye and she told him that was all he was getting for now.

He tried social media contact with her later to arrange another date but she did not respond and then he found she had blocked him from any accounts. A couple of weeks later we were informed that an accusation has been made, we did not then know who or what and he was at a loss but the only thing he thought was 'off' was this girl that had blocked him after that night.

He felt he had nothing to hide so arranged to see the police but I sought advice and was told under no circumstances should he go on his own and to get a solicitor, which we did.

He was shocked to hear her accusation where she said she had been raped where he had held her hair back and had his hand round her throat. My son has never ever had any tendency to violence, he has always been well thought of, kind and tended to be the sort that would be messed around by a girl rather than the other way round and was absolutely devastated.

The interview complete his solicitor said he had conducted himself extremely well and would be surprised if it went any further. 3 months on he was asked to bring his phone in which he did, again as he felt he had nothing to hide.

We heard nothing else for another 10 months and following this site I was hopeful for a NFA as he was innocent. My son confident in his honesty and belief in that he had nothing to hide and she was telling lies carried on hoping the same. So we were absolutely gutted to hear he was to be charged. The policeman said to my son that he was not a bad lad and appreciated it was terrible but it had been back and forth with the CPS and they must be leaning to the girls story.

What was worse the police in preparation of charging him, phoned my son to come in for a 'chat' and when he asked did he need a solicitor he was told no the solicitor had been informed and he was comfortable that he could go in without him as they had no questions for him. I told my son that he should still ring the solicitor himself and when he rang him back the next day the solicitor told him he was going in to be charged, so now I have lost faith in the solicitor who would have left my son to go and face that devastating news on his own.

My son had legal aid but can we/should we change solicitor at this stage. I can't sleep, I am constantly crying and feel sick all the time. My son on hearing he was being charged was in tears and saying his life is over for something he didn't do.

[Casehardened]

Hello and welcome to the forum, though sorry to read of the reason for posting.

[I've not altered any of your wording but only split up the block of text to make for easier reading. I guess you meant the title to read 'Son' but I've forgotten how to edit titles: now done!]

It is perfectly in order, and indeed advisable, to change from the duty solicitor to a specialist in defending false allegations if charges are brought. There is a section of the forum with recommendations from members, not sure if you've already seen it, but here is the link:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ist-solicitors

Please remember charging is only another step in the process, not the end, and undoubtedly a consultation with an expert solicitor will give you both some reassurance.

[Peter1975]

Hello and welcome to DM, although I am very sorry that you find the need to post.

I do not waste my time here trying to maintain hope, experience tells me there is lots of hope for you to hang onto. Please don't despair.

The CPS have only one remit which is to save public money by only prosecuting cases with " a realistic prospect of conviction" - don't let this deflate you, the CPS get their decision wrong in at least half of those they put forward - and bear in mind they do so without seeing a full defence case statement which they will in due course. - What the hell do they know?

If you are not confident in your solicitor then yes, you should seek out one that has a proven track record - see the thread that CH has posted or ask here and we will see what we can do.

A charge does not mean a conviction, or even a trial sometimes. Hang in there

[guttedmum]

Thank you CH and Peter 1975

Thank you both so much for responding so quickly and your advice and the link to the recommendations. My son did not use a duty solicitor as the police phoned to ask him to come in with a couple of days notice. I asked if he needed someone with him and they said he could use the duty solicitor but might hae to sit around and wait. I sought advice on a phone help line and they recommended the solicitor he used.

On the day of the 'interview' other than a chat upfront when the police told them both what he was charged with, the solicitor never said anything all they way through and other than to say at the end that he thought it was unlikely to go any further he has only been in touch to tell my son to take his phone in. He has not given the advice like this site does i.e. write down all the details, prepare etc. so I am so worried here that we are not getting the best support. He was however a legal aid solicitor and I seem to remember reading on here that once appointed a legal aid representative then it is not looked on too well if you want to change. My son is on an apprenticeship so earnings are quite low and therefore must have qualified.

Although we have no spare money we could look at remortgaging the house and going private but I am so unsure of what to do. I have read the recommendations and Chris Saltese is in the North West and seems to be popular but I see they don't do legal aid. However my sons whole life is at stake here and therefore I wonder whether I should go down this route. I have no idea of costs - does anyone have any indications?

Sorry I know can ring to ask but just trying to get an understanding before moving forward and possibly doing the wrong thing.

[Casehardened]

I have no idea of costs - does anyone have any indications?

Sorry I know can ring to ask but just trying to get an understanding before moving forward and possibly doing the wrong thing.

I seem to remember reading of a ball-park figure of £30,000 for a fully funded defence to trial for Chris Saltrese.

Obviously this could vary either way depending on how many days a trial might last and Chris's staff could give you a better estimate but at least this will give you an idea of the likely costs.

[Franticwithworry]

Hi there, guttedmum. I'm so sorry to find you hear though. It tears your heart apart when your children are hurting, especially for no good reason, doesn't it?

It sounds as though the solicitor your son used isn't as experienced as he might be with these kinds of charges, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you changing solicitors at this point. No-one will think badly of you and your son is entitled to the best legal representation that can be managed. Chris Saltrese is highly recommended, but as you know only works privately. That said, there is nothing to stop you having a chat with him to get a quote and see what he says about your case. Also, too, there are plenty of excellent solicitors who do work on legal aid. Many of them work nationally now most things are done on the computer, so take a look at the recommended solicitors thread on here and make a few phone calls. It's perfectly ok, if not essential, to talk to a few before your son makes his choice on who he wants to represent him, and he doesn't have to go with the the first one he speaks to. Being represented in something like this is a very personal decision and he needs to have confidence in him/her.

One other thing to add is that your son did get correct advice when he was told that he didn't need a solicitor to attend when he was charged. What was missing was the fact that he could take someone else with him - you or a friend - for moral support. Charging is an administrative thing and there is nothing for a solicitor to say about it and your son would have had to pay for the solicitor's time. He does, of course need specialist advice that his current solicitor doesn't appear to be giving, so again, he needs to find an expert in sexual charges.

Asking on here is exactly what the forum is for so please don't worry about posting and asking anything you want. At the very least someone will point you in the right direction.

Hang in there. Being charged doesn't automatically mean that there will be a trial either. The CPS can end up thinking again when they know what the defence have to say.

[guttedmum]

Researching solicitors

Thank you CH and FW for your responses. I will take your advice and ring round some solicitors, I just don't want to feel that I could have done more even if it means remortgaging the house. I would be devastated if I felt he was convicted because his defense was not good enough. He has been totally open with me and we have gone through every minute and every action that took place and I know he is telling the truth.

It helps to have your responses and support. My son and I are fortunate that we also have wider family support. I have brother and sisters who have all phoned messaged us all with their support once they heard, my husband is brilliant supporting him and me but although I put on the positive face for my son, on my own I am a crying mess. My husband is just very angry that the girl should have made this FA, especially as he was in the kitchen as she left and called in bye!

We also have another terrible thing to face, we foster and have two teenage brothers who have been with us for two years. They are settled, have really turned things around attend local DofE clubs etc. and doing really well in school and one is just about to take GCSE's. My son and they get on great he takes them to football and they have a good relationship. The SS knew about the accusation and have been waiting like us for the next outcome. On hearing of the intent to charge they have told us this weekend that my son needs to move out of the family home until they have an emergency meeting on Monday. I objected strongly to this as he is not proven guilty so felt he was being treated unfairly and I don't want to turn my back on my son when he needs us the most.

My son however not wanting to cause issues for the boys said, he would go and stay with his girlfriend for the week-end until we hear more. I am dreading that they will tell us if he lives here then it will either be him or the children who have to move out. I am so torn. My sisters have said he can stop with either of them and would be loved and looked after but I feel I would be turning my back on him.

It feels a never ending nightmare

[Franticwithworry]

I think it's so wrong when Social Services take decisions like this. I fail to see how they can reasonably think that your foster sons are at risk.

I fully understand the 'crying mess' thing (me too!) and it's great that your son's Dad, aunts and uncles are being so supportive too. That said, you are not in any way, I am sure, turning your back on him if he goes and stays with his girlfriend or relatives for a while, just helping facilitate what needs to be done to get through this nightmare. It's clear that he himself is willing to do whatever is necessary to do what is best for the wider family and all kudos to him for that. Please don't despair just yet. The meeting may decide that it's not necessary or in your foster sons' best interests and if they do want your son to move out, let the solicitors you speak to know about that too. They may have some ideas about how to handle that and if any pressure can be brought to bear for common sense to prevail.

I'll be thinking of you and hoping for a sensible decision on Monday.

[Casehardened]

Sorry to hear this latest bombshell; I've fortunately not had to have any dealings with SS but I know many members have and they may be able to suggest how to deal with them.

I note you mentioned that your son's accuser is 'a girl who was a couple of months of her 18th' and ironically this couple of months means she was officially a minor (at the time of the allegation!) and presumably your foster boys are also under 18; hence the SS involvement (incredible as it may seem he is being classed as a possible danger to children....completely ridiculous as she is well over the age of consent...but, as you are now discovering, the whole system is a minefield)

I suspect that if she had been a couple of months over 18 instead of under you wouldn't have had SS involvement.

Edit: My post crossed with Franticwithworry's.....

[Casehardened]

[thread moved to more appropriate section of forum]

[Peter1975]

The last quote I heard was £50k for a trial with CS - depending on the length of trial, pages of evidence, number of witnesses etc. best to ring him yourself - he's a lovely guy.


The vast majority of cases are won by good legal aid sols though, if your son is under 18 he will automatically qualify and under rules brought in a fews years back, you will lose every single penny if you choose to go private unless, perversely, he earns too much for LA ( totally disgraceful I agree )

Where is the trial likely to be held? Our recommendations are limited to a certain degree by how few of our past members are willing to put forward the names of their sols - It is rather an obvious fact that those that win a case are the bee's knees while those that lose one are useless!

All of Right's Fighters recommendations are good because she has known them and their track record for years. Try them first if you can.

[Peter1975]

I should add that SS work on the balance of probabilities, or is it more likely than not rather than proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

In reality, when SS see a need to be involved ( which seems ro be indiscriminate ) - it is all about risk and it is not just the defendant that is called into question.

You will naturally have protective feelings toward your son and if you protest his innocence without being able to prove it ( nearly always impossible ) , SS will likely take the view that you are unable to protect the other children in your care.

"innocent until proven guilty" does not mean what most people think it does - Ian Huntley was innocent until proven guilty - should he have been left unattended until after his trial? - Apologies for any offence caused here, that is not my intent but you MUST see things from the outside and understand the public protection measures that SS work under.

Ultimately, you should be able to demonstrate a careful consideration of the facts and put all emotion aside, if your son has somewhere else safe to stay then you should accept this as a temporary solution - Make sure that you make clear that ALL of the children in your care are a priority

[guttedmum]

Solicitor appointed

Thank you again all for your replies, we have today appointed Chris as he would be considered relatively local to us and my son took some comfort from sharing his version of events with them. His initial comments are that this case would not even have got this far a few years ago, but the current climate is very different. I know we have a long way to go from here but it his first step in trying to prove his innocence.

Peter1975 thanks for your advice, I recognise the comments you make and would hope that I would be seen as someone who is able to look at the situation rationally and not be overtaken by emotion, albeit in private I am breaking inside. Of course as you point out ALL the children are important and I am desperately to apply equal prioritisation to each of their needs, which of course also includes my son - a very difficult challenge.

When my son was charged he was told by the police that it is not their responsibility to tell SSs what to do about him being at home and that SSs would need to make that decision themselves. We are still awaiting the decision from SS, even though they were supposed to have an emergency meeting last Monday.

Magistrates date is set for next month- the nightmare just goes on and on.

[Franticwithworry]

It's so difficult, isn't it, guttedmum?

I understand all that Peter is saying about Ian Huntley and so on, and perhaps I was a little too outspoken earlier. Of course it's absolutely essential that all the children are protected and their best interests accommodated, but often someone's best interests have to take second place to someone else's.

It sounds as though you are doing a really good job so for though and I'm glad that your son has confidence in and is feeling reassured by Chris. Hopefully, no news from Social Services is good news. It does seem like a neverending nightmare, but it will all come to an end eventually.

[guttedmum]

Son charged with rape

Thanks FWW. Your empathy and responses are appreciated. Our SW has been on today but still no further with the decision. Our SW has put forward to the children's sws that they do not feel the children are at risk and our son should be allowed to remain the family home but no decision as yet a week on.

We are now trying to collate information that could contribute to collaborate my son's version of events. It is like life is on hold.

Anyone advise now my son is charged and at the magistrates date set for next month whether he is allowed to go abroad on holiday? He booked the holiday at xmas believing/hoping that the allegation would go no further. We were advised by solicitor that it is likely that the case would only be heard by CC in Autumn and his holiday was booked for May?