FA from 39 year ago

[Brokenfamily]

Hi guys

My father has been accused of rape Thursday from 39 year ago
He was 12 and the victim was 12

He got a visit from the police but was not in, so he rang them and they wanted a interview he went down to be told he was being accused of rape he answered all there questions offered a lie detector or anything to prove his innocence.

He does not know this woman and never heard of her and we are all heartbroken and he is in a very bad place. He is hard working family man with two daughters and this is destroying him

I need some advice anything as none of us have been through anything like this. And with this being so old how do we prove his innocence ?

My father tried to take his own life this morning we had to call the police and crisis team he has never even thought of suicide he is a strong man the rock of this family but this has broken him
I just don’t know we’re to turn or what to do. Or how long this will go on for I don’t want to loose my dad over these false alagatioms from 39 year ago

[Casehardened]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

A quick glance through this forum will show that this sort of allegation is not unusual though of course that's no help when it happens out of the blue to someone you know. It's good that you are offering support as he is obviously in no fit state to think rationally at the moment.

A couple of things come to mind: if he doesn't know who the accuser is and she didn't live anywhere near him at the time of the accusation then effectively he has an alibi: a 12 year old is not likely to be travelling great distances alone and there was no social media then to form long distance relationships. On the other hand if she lived round the corner, i.e. the alleged offence could have happened, then the police have a duty to investigate the allegation, which is where he is now.

A couple of points come to mind......

Was he offered a duty solicitor for his interview and did he accept? If so did the solicitor offer any thoughts on how the situation will pan out?

There is some general advice in this link which may be helpful:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...at-happens-now

In view of his age at the time of the allegation doli incapax may be relevant. Soulbug is a active member and knows this subject and may be able to advise further (many solicitors overlook this defence) but in the meantime here is another link:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...0-Doli-Incapax

[Franticwithworry]

Dear Brokenfamily, I'm so sorry that this is happening to your father and your family.

Unfortunately, as Casehardened says, these kinds of accusations are not particularly unusual. We are dealing with an historical accusation at the moment and I know of others who have come through it and either had the CPS drop the case or been acquitted. Your poor father must be devastated and you too. It's hard to overestimate the impact of a false accusation.

That said, the advice from Casehardened is, as always, good, and I would suggest two things at the moment, because to be honest, nothing more is likely to happen to your father for a while.

1 Please encourage him to concentrate on getting well. Whatever he did to himself in his distress, it will take a time to recover from that, and he needs all his strength to to that.

2 In the meantime, as Casehardened says, find a specialist solicitor or two for your Dad to talk to in due course. He needs one with experience in historic false accusations and knowledge of Doli Incapax as your father was so young at the time of the accusation. It's no longer applicable so many solicitors are unaware of it's relevance to historical cases. Don't worry too much about finding someone local to you. Many solicitors work nationally or at least with a wider radius than you would think and most will give some advice over the phone in these circumstances without charge, even talking to a family member rather than the accused in the first instance.

I'm sure talking to someone with legal knowledge and experience will be a comfort. These accusations are far more common than most people think. Most never see the inside of a courtroom and if your father has never even heard of the accuser it sounds as though there is every chance that her accusation will be shown to be the false or mistaken one that it is sooner rather than later.

It's not a slow or easy process, but one step at a time and for now I wish your father a full and speedy recovery. You and he are not alone by any means and there is support here when you need it.

[Brokenfamily]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

A quick glance through this forum will show that this sort of allegation is not unusual though of course that's no help when it happens out of the blue to someone you know. It's good that you are offering support as he is obviously in no fit state to think rationally at the moment.

A couple of things come to mind: if he doesn't know who the accuser is and she didn't live anywhere near him at the time of the accusation then effectively he has an alibi: a 12 year old is not likely to be travelling great distances alone and there was no social media then to form long distance relationships. On the other hand if she lived round the corner, i.e. the alleged offence could have happened, then the police have a duty to investigate the allegation, which is where he is now.

A couple of points come to mind......

Was he offered a duty solicitor for his interview and did he accept? If so did the solicitor offer any thoughts on how the situation will pan out?

There is some general advice in this link which may be helpful:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...at-happens-now

In view of his age at the time of the allegation doli incapax may be relevant. Soulbug is a active member and knows this subject and may be able to advise further (many solicitors overlook this defence) but in the meantime here is another link:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...0-Doli-Incapax

Yes he was given a duty solicitor by the police. Who shed no light what so ever on what to do next. I read quite a few forums last night and seen this Doli incapax mentioned a lot. He was given the name of the victim and I have had a look around for her on the internet but I’m just assuming as none of us know anything about this woman or her family.

He rang Samaritans yesterday before it got to the point it did and they basically said ring back when you feel your going to do it. What made him feel more alone. And helpless

He speaking a bit more sense today and is realising that we are all here for him and he’s not going to loose us over something like this.

I’m going to look into a solicitor that has experience in historic allegations right now thank you

[Peter1975]

Hello and welcome to DM BF,

I'm sorry to hear that your father is taking things so badly, please reassure him that you will all be there for him.

Reassure him also that most of these cases do not go any further - it may be a while before he hears anything back but the chances are he won't find himself in court - and you can cross that bridge if and when you come to it. While no one can guarantee that, at the moment it's a small if

It doesn't seem the Samaritan he spoke to was much help - You can always ring back and speak to another one!

FASO ( False allegations support organisation ) have a telephone helpline that is open 6pm-10pm on weekdays if he would like to speak to someone. Their number is 0844 335 1992 and their website is here:

http://www.false-allegations.org.uk/

The above advice is excellent as always from CH & Frantic, speaking with a solicitor or two should give him some reassurance too.

As Ch wisely says, the first thing the police should do is try and establish if they even might have been in the same area - which really should be done before they even question a suspect. This rather basic policing has been sadly lacking in some cases but such as life, there are good and bad police and good solicitors might give them a nudge in the right direction - although you will likely have to pay for this as there is only legal aid for "advice and assistance" at the police station. The duty solicitors may be willing to follow this up so it's worth speaking to them but bear in mind they won't get paid anymore and they are not obliged to.

DM does have a thread of recommended solicitors which a helpful fellow also plotted on a google map to make them easier to locate. Look for Right's Fighters yellow flags first.

As always, if in the London, the home counties or East Anglia , Freemans Solicitors have an excellent reputation and track record. They do private and legal aid work. Speak to Harvey Fox in the first instance:

http://www.freemanssolicitors.net/si...ile/harvey_fox


Chris Saltrese is a highly regarded private client only solicitor. He doesn't do legal aid work but comes highly recommended. His website is certainly worth a visit:

http://www.chrissaltrese.co.uk/

It is not just defence solicitors that have been unaware of Doli Incapax - police, CPS solicitors and judges have been clueless about this in the past too - Furthermore, there was no offence of rape for a defendant under the age of 14 prior to the Sexual Offences Act 1993 - The less serious charge of indecent assault would apply.

I could pretend that I'm clever ( I'm really not! ) but the following is a copy and paste from an appeal judgement:

The requirements for the rebuttal of the common law presumption of doli incapax were summarised in R v M (D) [2016] EWCA Crim 674 as follows:

"The presumption was rebutted only if the prosecution proved beyond reasonable doubt both (i) that the child had caused an actus reus (guilty act ) with mens rea (guilty mind) , in other words (i) committed the crime, and (ii) he or she also knew that the particular conduct was not merely naughty or mischievous but seriously wrong."

The rule was abolished as from 30 September 1998 by s 34 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 but that provision did not have retrospective effect.

To summarise, there is lots of hope and it's maybe not as bad as your father is thinking!

Hang in there

[Franticwithworry]

Hello again, Brokenfamily. I'm glad to see that Peter1975 has provided you with a lot more useful information.

I just wanted to say how appalled I am to hear of your father's experience with Samaritans. Peter1975 is right, your father can always call back and talk to another volunteer, but I would encourage you, if you are able, to call back yourself and ask to speak to the Team Leader - they may be called something else, but the person in charge of the shift - and explain what happened. It is very much a training issue and no-one should have been treated as your father was, not even by a new volunteer who felt out of their depth. There are ways to make sure that a caller gets the support they need and telling someone to call back later is not one of them. They won't know that they failed your father badly if no-one tells them.

I hope that he is feeling better today and that you have all found Peter1975's information comforting.

[Peter1975]

Thanks Frantic, and another excellent point about giving some feedback to the Samaritans.

I have to say that they were brilliant for me, continuing to listen even when I must have made no sense!

It didn't occur to me that the particular Samaritan that spoke to your Dad could be inexperienced and perhaps in need of some guidance or further training.

You don't have to complain as such, Samaritans are all volunteers and certainly mean well but we all learn from experience and cannot improve if we don't hear some criticism.

[Brokenfamily]

Thanks Frantic, and another excellent point about giving some feedback to the Samaritans.

I have to say that they were brilliant for me, continuing to listen even when I must have made no sense!

It didn't occur to me that the particular Samaritan that spoke to your Dad could be inexperienced and perhaps in need of some guidance or further training.

You don't have to complain as such, Samaritans are all volunteers and certainly mean well but we all learn from experience and cannot improve if we don't hear some criticism.

Yes we are going to have words with Samaritans once he settles but he has been a lot better today he has gone past the suicide emotion (we hope) and now he is at the angry he is explaining to him it’s like he’s going through phases.

We are ready to pay any amount for the best solicitor there is but it will not stop the way my father feels thank you guys honestly thank you x

[Peter1975]

Yes we are going to have words with Samaritans once he settles but he has been a lot better today he has gone past the suicide emotion (we hope) and now he is at the angry he is explaining to him it’s like he’s going through phases.

We are ready to pay any amount for the best solicitor there is but it will not stop the way my father feels thank you guys honestly thank you x

Phases are completely natural in an unnatural situation. Someone wiser than me has likened it to your life flashing before your eyes when drowning - The scientific explanation for this is your brain searching desperately for a solution to a situation it hasn't encountered before- and never expected to.

I may often be guilty of downplaying the psychological damage done by false allegations - the reason being that I believe we can make things worse for ourselves if we are not careful - but that does not mean the damage is not real or should be dismissed easily or as something you should just get over instantly. As FWW says, these things take time.

How it feels is not always the same as how it really is either.

Good legal advice is always the priority . Be warned though, there are some charlatans out there that will hoover up your money for doing very little. See my post above!

[Casehardened]

If you are able to afford to pay for legal representation rather than relying on legal aid can I add a +1 for Chris Saltrese.

Over the years I have been involved with the forum he has had an exemplary track record in obtaining NG verdicts should the case be charged and go to trial as, quite importantly, he has a network of excellent barristers whom he works with.

[Brokenfamily]

If you are able to afford to pay for legal representation rather than relying on legal aid can I add a +1 for Chris Saltrese.

Over the years I have been involved with the forum he has had an exemplary track record in obtaining NG verdicts should the case be charged and go to trial as, quite importantly, he has a network of excellent barristers whom he works with.

The legal fees would not be a problem we would pay whatever it takes.
Thank you guys honestly thank you from the bottom of my heart I have been reading snippets to him and he’s seeing that’s he’s not alone and this happens more regular than it should. And a lot of advice on what is the next step now.
As I say we’re takimg it a day at time and slowly telling more family members so he has that support like his sisters and brothers who grew up in the same house and area all there life have never heard of this lady.
But it’s a waiting game now I will keep you all updated and hopefully good news at the end
He’s realised that he was stupid but he felt so lonely and helpless but now he knows nothing will come between us as a family and we all have his back

It’s just horrible seeing a fully grown man who has always been the rock cry like a baby over something he has no control over

[Brokenfamily]

The legal fees would not be a problem we would pay whatever it takes.
Thank you guys honestly thank you from the bottom of my heart I have been reading snippets to him and he’s seeing that’s he’s not alone and this happens more regular than it should. And a lot of advice on what is the next step now.
As I say we’re takimg it a day at time and slowly telling more family members so he has that support like his sisters and brothers who grew up in the same house and area all there life have never heard of this lady.
But it’s a waiting game now I will keep you all updated and hopefully good news at the end
He’s realised that he was stupid but he felt so lonely and helpless but now he knows nothing will come between us as a family and we all have his back

It’s just horrible seeing a fully grown man who has always been the rock cry like a baby over something he has no control over

And the whole Samaritans thing.
I was just angry that he picked up the courage to ask for help before and no one was there to help him
I love the Samaritans and love the work they do I was just angry as there could have been just a bit more effort

[soulbug]

Hi Brokenfamily, I have not had chance to read through all the messages, But I had a very similar situation trust me Doli Incapax is a important part of your case, I called various solicitors during my time of need, some said doli incapax would not apply, THEY WHERE COMPLETELY WRONG...trust me I went through the whole thing all the way to crown court, at the last hurdle the Judge threw the case out due to Doli Incapax.

Chris Saltrease was my solicitor, he is worth the cost you will be in the safest of hands.

If your Dad would like to chat or message me he is welcome to and I will offer my help and hopefully give him some peace of mind.

I shall have a read through all the messages later this evening, I am just about to finish work and logged in for a quick look.

[Brokenfamily]

Hi Brokenfamily, I have not had chance to read through all the messages, But I had a very similar situation trust me Doli Incapax is a important part of your case, I called various solicitors during my time of need, some said doli incapax would not apply, THEY WHERE COMPLETELY WRONG...trust me I went through the whole thing all the way to crown court, at the last hurdle the Judge threw the case out due to Doli Incapax.

Chris Saltrease was my solicitor, he is worth the cost you will be in the safest of hands.

If your Dad would like to chat or message me he is welcome to and I will offer my help and hopefully give him some peace of mind.

I shall have a read through all the messages later this evening, I am just about to finish work and logged in for a quick look.

Thanks that is amazing of you

[soulbug]

Thanks that is amazing of you

Hi, Sorry for my late reply, I have had a read through the thread and yes I can see lots of similarties to my case, my case was differs in that it was a family member that accused me, but very similar age as your dad and similar period of time.

You are welcome to message me and if your dad would like to make contact or yourself I would be happy to chat with you or him or both ! to perhaps try and give you some insight into the process etc.

I shall also try to PM you via the site , as I believe as a new user, new users require x amount of posts on the forum before they can PM .