Opinions wanted

[Pond31]

Hi All

Northern Ireland is looking to change its approach on how to deal with rape and sexual assault cases. A report has been created by Sir John Gillen I have attached the Executive Summary to this message Here is the link to it.

https://gillenreview.org/sites/gille...%20Summary.pdf

I would be grateful for any comments on the 13 main recommendations as I am going to an open event and hope to make some points.

David

[Pond31]

It should have been OPINIONS WANTED not Options.... I always get them mixed up.

[Franticwithworry]

I despair of these reports. I think that some research will debunk this 'myth' very quickly -

• victims cry rape when they regret having sex or want revenge;

Another point I would make is that, predictably, the report only speaks of how the victim/complainant requires support. In a system whereby the accused is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, consideration of the kind of support that they might need should be made. The report argues against anonymity for the accused because -

'....... it is extremely difficult to justify the identity of an accused being anonymised in serious sexual offences and not in other heinous offences such asmurder, crimes of unspeakable cruelty to children and other offences of nonsexual extreme violence etc.'

when it has already previously stated that

'Despite the severe consequences, both physical and mental, often suffered by accused persons (and their close family members) who have been acquitted of serious sexual offences, together with the public opprobrium often visited on them (and their families), I currently consider there are two key reasons for maintaining the status quo.'

This comment is in reference to the opinion that anonymity should not be given post charge, and completely ignores the fact that the 'severe consequences' frequently outstrip those suffered by those accused of murder, extreme cruelty to children and nonsexual extreme violence'.

The report looks for research in to the vast under-reporting and drop-out rate of those entering the criminal justice system. There also needs to be research into the poor conviction rate of those known to have lied about being a victim of sexual crime and a realistic attempt to quantify the reasons for the drop-out rate. 'Not enough evidence' when the only evidence required is a statement is not good enough.

Why cases do not go ahead are many and varied. It is time that false/frivolous/malicious/mistaken reports were identified and quantified.

That's all for now. These reports are too depressing and demonstrate how the judiciary swallow all the myths and focus almost solely on the 'victims', missing the wider sociological forces at work pretty much completely.

[HurtandConfused1]

Franticwithworry

I almost word for word brought up the exact concerns with his review that you have discussed. Sir Gillen did not respond to that nor to my story and suggestions about the system despite his promise to listen to everyone. I am not going to mince my words I think Sir Gillen is a coward who is simply toeing a safe line despite his huge opportunity to offer suggestions to improve the system for both the falsey accused and sexual abuse victitms.

[Franticwithworry]

Franticwithworry

I almost word for word brought up the exact concerns with his review that you have discussed. Sir Gillen did not respond to that nor to my story and suggestions about the system despite his promise to listen to everyone. I am not going to mince my words I think Sir Gillen is a coward who is simply toeing a safe line despite his huge opportunity to offer suggestions to improve the system for both the falsey accused and sexual abuse victitms.

Well said. This from twitter today, reference the 'myth' I mentioned (and I find examples on almost a daily basis going back years) -

PC LB


@NotAnotherCop
17h17 hours ago
More
Tonight a female admitted she lied about being raped because her BF found out she had cheated.

Hours of police time wasted.

Officers taken away from crime and other people in need.

The poor "suspect" being brought in to custody & subjected to intimate swabs.

Just NO.

[Franticwithworry]

It should have been OPINIONS WANTED not Options.... I always get them mixed up.

I changed it for you. :-)

[Peter1975]

I've only skimmed through the rather long and familiar looking report but that "myth" is what sticks in my craw too - (last I checked, this "myth" was listed in the CPS guidelines on prosecuting rape ) - and it stinks of the anti rape lobby groups.

It may be that it is/was indeed a myth that most reported rapes are regretted sex/revenge/cover for bad behaviour and such things are unknowable for sure but the very word "myth" suggests that it doesn't happen at all which is no more than an unfounded attempt to replace a myth with a lie.

Note, even discussing an abstract, hypothetical lying complainant starts with the word "victim" !

The main point I see is that the low conviction rates are being dragged out again as "proof" of bias in the system - and yes there is - it is there by design to protect the innocent.

I would really like to ask is if the low conviction rate is simply down to jury's following their instructions and justice working the way it should. The majority of these cases are indeed just one word against another and a jury might simply want a bit more than that to be beyond a reasonable doubt - a defendant's word carries equal weight with that of the complainant and it is just as easy for a defendant to lie and give plausible doubt as it is a lying complainant to convince a jury they are telling the truth - It's important to remember that a jury does not have to think the defendant is completely innocent to acquit, as countless barristers ( and fair judges and prosecutors ) have told jury's ; if they think def is "probably" guilty, it's not good enough and they must acquit. - And this high burden of proof is not infallible when it comes to sexual allegations - See Gemma Beale for example.

I'm glad he has resisted attempts to do away with jury's - the last thing we want is a league table of rape judges based on their conviction rates - more AR lobby nonsense.

Following on from this point, and with some regret to those genuinely assaulted or raped but denied the justice they wanted, - it should be stressed to every (real) victim that it is not futile or pointless to report their attacker - they may not be prosecuted or may not be found guilty simply because of the lack of objective evidence in these cases but an accusation can only be wiped from a defendant's record if they can prove that they are innocent, something that most defs will tell you is impossible unless an alibi or dna evidence that points to another suspect is available - and it will therefore stay on their record, bolstering any future claims by others as "bad character" - or possibly just giving them the short sharp shock that prevents them from reoffending - small consolation perhaps but it is often the anti rape groups that reinforce the idea that reporting sexual crimes is a waste of time. - The downside to this is obviously that the completely innocent will also stay on the police national computer (PNC) and may have the false allegation disclosed on an enhanced DBS.

The idea that Complainants should have their own separate legal representation seems rather barking to me.

I could go on but I'll leave it here!