social services advice after a NG

[Goodguy]

Hi,

so im back again, first i must apologise for not been on for a while after such great support during last year. as some of you may recall, my partner was accused back in 2016 of sexual assalut on a family member back in 2014. the whole case was filled with contradicitions and holes etc anyway back last december the judge through it out before the trail started as the accusser lied to the judge about previous allegations (shed accussed 14 people prior). said she hadnt but he had the police reports in front of him so offically it was noted as a not guilty verdict as the cps withdrew their arguement and said they were offering no evidence. clearly due to her being an unreliable witness and already showing she was happy to lie.

anyway a week later we went to social services after not seeing his children for 5months and they thought we had been seeing them regularly with him been supervised by myself or family (due to SS only talking to the childrens mum ad not him) they said there was no reason for him not to see them and within days case closed and we had the boys back half the week. febuary he got a call to say they still needed to do a risk assessment and had been an error in closing the case, he was advised to be supervised until it was done but heard nothing. may he went for a meeting with them to start the risk assessment was told he was only allowed supervised visits. these became fewer and fewer from the boys mum and he hasnt seen them since august. He was told last week the risk assessment has been completed and they see him as a medium risk, the 5 reasons they gave that they need to look into further have nothing to do with him, one is about his sister walking in on parents in the bedroom when she was 12 and thats why she ran away at 16 (he was 5 at the time wasnt even on the holiday and still dont get the link). the other things are concerns that they have on the boys behaviour last year (when we werent allowed to see them so obviously their behaviour a school would have changed.

theyve told him because of this they arent changing the current circumstances and hes still on supervised visitis which he doesnt get as their mum wont stick to them.

any advice on where to go further with this? and others expereinces of SS after a trail or FA as we thought it would be a risk assessment and then case closed and that the supervised visits should have a social worker there if the parents cant sort it themselves

[Franticwithworry]

Hello Goodguy. I'm sorry to see that you're still having problems. Yes, what SHOULD happen after a NG (or NFA) is that SS should do what they did for you in the first place but they are a law unto themselves and work on 'the balance of probability rather than anything concrete like facts.

You have an additional problem with the children's mother and Parental Alienation. I'm sorry to say so but I honestly think that you need to bite the bullet and talk to a family lawyer, preferably one with experience of Parental Alienation and the detrimental effects it can have. I'm sure you can do without more legal expense and hassle but I have known things to take a swift-about-turn when a good lawyer gets involved.

Not always of course, but there's not much possibility of things changing without legal help. SS aren't pro-active in making parents comply if they don't want to, seemingly regardless of what's best for the children. Involvement of a lawyer and perhaps even a court order is likely what you need.

There's a good support group for alienated parents on Facebook if you need it so let me know if you want details, I'll check and see if they can help you find a decent solicitor if you want too.

[Pond31]

It always confuses me that if an accused is NFA'd or found NG then why do the social services have to get involved. They are not investigators and don't have the training ( or lack off) that the police do. So what can they find out that has not already been gone over? I can understand while a case is ongoing but once it is over it should be over. The SS seem to act like that the accused is still guilty.

[Peter1975]

Hello Mrs ( and Mr ) Goodguy,


I'm sorry to hear you are still suffering from the repercussions of the false accusation.

I really do despair of SS sometimes, they simply will not take any risks, I think probably because they could get sued... and they tend to see everything as a risk.. Experiences vary and it seems to be the luck of the draw if you get a good social worker or not unfortunately but they are trained to believe every accusation and take risk seriously. It's all about risk.

It does seem they are grasping at straws here a little though. I can only think they imagine that his sister could have warped his tiny 5 year old mind by telling him what she saw! - They cannot be serious.

I agree with Frantic, you need a solicitor ideally and also some support groups might help. There are a few ss ones on facebook. I think some of the PAFAA members might be able to help too, and possibly others such as fathers for justice F4F or families need fathers

SS can be forced to back off sometimes but this can be difficult and sadly expensive. There is no legal aid until you reach the public law outline (PLO) stage as I understand it which is one before they begin proceedings to take responsibility through the court.

The way they probably see it is that the CPS saw fit to charge ( before they actually looked at the undermining evidence ) - and so there is "evidence" for them to be concerned enough to act.

A not guilty verdict doesn't mean innocence unfortunately. Because the defence does not need to prove it's case, innocence does not get proven and this is very much the downside to having the highest burden of proof in the CC. As Frantic says, SS family courts work to a lower burden of proof, the dreaded "balance of probabilities" - or "is it more likely than not" rather than "to be sure, beyond all reasonable doubt" - so you must tread carefully and get some good advice. Evidence that is not good enough for a criminal court can convict in a lower court.

Pond is quite correct in a sense unfortunately, as far as SS are concerned you are guilty until proven innocent, beyond all reasonable doubt, the highest standard of proof, something which is almost impossible when dates can be too vague for alibi evidence for example.

From there it is all about risk and the best way to understand this is to imagine that you are a SW and you have a suspected child molestor that is actually guilty and on bail and his wife is in complete denial, refusing to believe he would harm anyone and that their child is completely safe if left alone...

For this reason, it is often advised that you never say "false accusation" or "he's completely innocent" - especially when SS first turn up. ie: you don't want to come across as being "in denial" - Remember always that it is about the child and nothing else and those deemed suitable to supervise must be seen as "protective factors" - so they must demonstrate a balanced viewpoint that is carefully considered and not one based on blind loyalty.

So on the one hand, there is the "risk" if SS do nothing and on the other, removing a loving parent from a child can be obviously damaging for the poor child and while SS clearly feel the former trumps the latter, it is the latter point you need to argue from the child's point of view with them front and centre. Children thrive on routine and stability and so contact should surely be regular. Think about things that support that argument, as their schoolwork suffered for example.

Perhaps they are not acting on all of the information though and need to be told about all of the other accusations the FA has made. It would be nice if the police or cps would confirm that she is an unreliable witness. A solicitor would be best to make these representations for you. I think it would be worth the money because they do seem to be stretching things a bit.

Anyway. I hope they go away soon and that you can then get on with the rest of your lives in peace.

Please keep us updated.


Edited to add.... I think you can have your own risk assessments done as well.... speak to a good solicitor!

[Goodguy]

Hi sorry for the delay in reply.

The Facebook support and advice groups would be a great help thank you.

After finally getting the report back this week it is looking like it's a case of because cos saw fit to take it to trail until it fell apart then as see it as a credible accusation.

But looking at it they really are just clutching at straws to make it hard work. He received a text last week to say they have closed the case and don't plan on changing his access to let him see the boys.

So a complaint will be going in. In their report they have listed in the risk assessment he said his vest job was working with youths and disabled children when he was younger as he felt good when he saw their excitement at achieving something. As someone who works in childcare this is said all the time but they've noted it as he basically has an obsession with children.

And the rest is based on the fact his dad was accused so it's generational abuse instead of looking into it and seeing that the complaints mother accused her dad years ago and was proved to be lying and now her daughter's repeating.

We're looking into a solicitor but after still having to pay for 2 homes and been on minimum wage it's highly unlikely we will be able to afford the fees been advertised.

But have managed to get a list of things to find to send to argue that they are wrong and only taking certain things into consideration.

Just a shame that even though it was obviously positive that the trail didn't go ahead but we did have loads of evidence to show the jury that she was lying and that it was filled with contradictions and now it didn't go that far as are saying it's all irrelevant.

On top of it all because of the ss case the dbs service has now decided we have 4 weeks to send them similar evidence to prove he isn't a risk to avoid him put on the children barred list which would affect both of our jobs and mean if I stayed in my work we couldn't live together till we can appeal it in 10 years time.

Each year we say the fights over and it just boomerangs back

Will keep you posted and would appreciate the names of any groups that may have help or advice

[Franticwithworry]

Have I got this right - your partner was acquitted at trial but SS are saying that you need to still live apart and he cannot see his children?

There are some men in the accusedme and False Allegations Support and Advice groups on Facebook. Thy are both closed groups that you need to ask to join and accused me isn't vetted so anyone might be in there but the False Allegations Support and Advice Group is.

Honestly, though, if SS are taking that view, you need more than support and advice, you really need a Family Lawyer. I know money is tight for you but you really cannot navigate family law against the might of social services alone. You can ask for a recommendation for a lawyer in either of those groups.

There are people on her who have experience of this who might come in and help too, but the forum has been a bit quiet just lately so I wouldn't rely on it. Ask around wherever you can. Even the criminal lawyer who helped with the trial might know someone.

[Goodguy]

You have read that right. According to ss been found not guilty and having the case thrown out of court vefore the trail started is not evidence of anything.

And have made their decision on one side of evidence.

Looking at solicitors were trying to sort finances out but since with maintenance and 2 household bills were left short anyway. We established that we can at a push afford the 200 a month that most charge for an hours work but struggling with when it gets to courts and contact orders as not sure how much they charge for those been told its a lot more.

Hoping if we can get as much as possible beforehand it'll 've less work for a solicitor and hopefully less money.

And have contacted the group's so hopefully this week will have time to get on them for extra advice and recommendations

[Peter1975]

The alternative to proper ( and expensive ) legal advice is a mckenzie friend who will support and advise during family court matters - their number is on the rise due to the savage cuts in legal aid - like solicitors though, there are good and bad and family court judges have been known to roll their eyes at their presence - and you need a family court judge to be on your side rather than alienated from the beginning.

A riskier alternative is simply to stick two fingers up at SS and goad them into taking you to court - You will be entitled to LA by that stage but the risks are obvious - the first one being that SS can ask the police to take your children into protective custody for 72 hours which requires no court authority - just the agreement of the police - and SS could argue that your non co operation is evidence of you putting your children at risk which may persuade a judge to grant them interim custody which SS will be applying for during the 72 hours.

Have you been through the SS complaints procedure, made a subject access request or asked to be reassessed by a different SW? - You could request a meeting with the local head of SS for example.

Most family law sols will give free advice for half an hour so I would start there and get some professional opinions and balance them with those in the groups.

[Rights Fighter]

Be very very careful in relation to McKenzie Friends. While some are good, others are not and you would be paying for basically no help at all.

It could be that the children are entitled to have a solicitor to look after their "rights" which means legal aid.


These two sols - one in Birmingham and the other in Yorkshire - come highly recommended from people who have used them. They do work nationally so don't worry about their locations.


Nigel Priestly at http://ridleyhall.co.uk

Brendan Fleming at http://www.brendanfleming.co.uk

[Peter1975]

Be very very careful in relation to McKenzie Friends. While some are good, others are not and you would be paying for basically no help at all.

It could be that the children are entitled to have a solicitor to look after their "rights" which means legal aid.


These two sols - one in Birmingham and the other in Yorkshire - come highly recommended from people who have used them. They do work nationally so don't worry about their locations.


Nigel Priestly at http://ridleyhall.co.uk

Brendan Fleming at http://www.brendanfleming.co.uk

Thanks RF, I will add that a bad Mckenzie friend could actually make things worse - they are not insured or regulated by anybody, but some are successful - Fathers4justice have a long history and have won plenty of cases from what I have seen on their twitter feed for example - but they will never boast about cases they lost either!

Educating yourself and looking at things objectively in the third person is always something I recommend as is professional advice over the opinions of some know it all on the internet like myself