New and scared

[TerrifiedinScotland]

Hi Everyone

So I was contacted by police a few months ago after a house party where a female had claimed I had raped her - which was absolutely not the case, although we did have consensual sex. We didn't exchange any form of contact with one another after words (I only met her that night and she was a friend of a friend who came back to the house post nightclub) and left on the presumption it was a one night stand. I have since found out she was married (she had told me that night she was in the process of splitting up from him which is a lie) and found myself a few days later in a police cell having DNA taken

Posting this is one of the most terrifying things I've ever done in my life, I've never even stepped foot in a police station and have pretty much been in tears ever since. I've told a few really important people in my life but I'm struggling massively to cope and not quite sure what to do

I've been told I likely won't hear anything until after Xmas, and the police were very nice. Fortunately the police mentioned on the phone it would be wise for me to have a lawyer present and I did, giving a no comment interview.

Has anyone got any experience of the system in Scotland? I was just released and basically told I need to get on with my life until I hear back but I'm struggling to concentrate and find my mind consumed with horrible thoughts about going to prison over a complete lie. Is there anywhere people in this situation can turn to? All the websites I found seem to be victim focused so I feel even more lost

[TerrifiedinScotland]

And sorry, just realised you're not meant to post about your experiences in this section. Fail!

[Peter1975]

Hello and a sad welcome to DM terrified.

We have had more than a couple of members that have experience of the Scottish system over the years but I'm not sure if they are still active or not. You could try and use the sites search function for Scottish cases.

It is important to understand that the Scottish system is very different to England and Wales, with the most notable difference being the requirement for corroborating evidence before a prosecution can take place which has never been the case south of the border.

The advice you will get here is largely the same though, do not trust the police to conduct a fair investigation, gather your own evidence and work closely with your solicitor. It would seem you have already gathered some support from those you trust and I can't stress how important this is too.

Also similar to E&W is the snails pace that the police often work at ( although perhaps less so in Scotland) - it's only fair to warn you that this could take some time and so the advice you have been given, to simply carry on, is good advice ( but admittedly easier said than done )

Also easy to say but try not to worry about the worst case scenario just now, the odds are that this will go no further so try and hang on to that hope and keep yourself healthy and sane.


For some reason there is no Scottish equivalent to the support groups we have down here but if you wish to connect with other Scots, there are one or two in pafaa and the busiest place would be the accused.me.uk facebook group.

[Franticwithworry]

And sorry, just realised you're not meant to post about your experiences in this section. Fail!

Not to worry, TerrifiedinScotland, I've moved it for you. :-)

I'm sorry you've had to find us here, but I'm glad you did and the scenario you describe is all too common. Unfortunately, the initial advice you've had is good - doing your best to get on with your life while you wait for an outcome is the best thing that you can do at the moment. That said, there are a few other things you can do as well.

Scotland's laws are very different from those in England but some basic advice covers both jurisdictions.

1 Find yourself a specialist lawyer, one with experience of false accusations so that in the event of you getting a charge, you know who to call immediately. I strongly recommend giving John Keenan from Capital Defence Lawyers in Edinburgh a call. They are on the recommendations thread of this forum. If you want to contact them and can't locate them, come back and let me know and I'll sort out a link for you. I have no vested interest in him. I just know that he is a specialist and he has done good work. He's also very approachable, is willing to explain the process without expecting to be instructed and rape cases in the High Court are pretty much all he does so he is very experienced. I don't know if he does legal aid or how that works in Scotland, but I do know it's more frugal there than in England. I'm sure he can tell you the details of that too.

2 Write down every little detail that you can think of about that night. To be honest, it's highly likely though by no means a certainty, that her husband found out what she was doing that night and this is her justification for it. Any little thing that happened may be of importance, so write it down and let a lawyer decide what matters and what doesn't.

3 Understand that what has happened to you is a shock so great that it is in fact a physical brain trauma. It will take time to recover but it will recover. In the meantime, expect to be distraught, upset, unable to concentrate, tearful, disorientated and all sorts of other things. The actual symptoms vary from person to person but symptoms are normal and will lessen over the coming weeks. It's great that you have people to confide in in real life, and though this forum is relatively quiet there are people who log in quite regularly, so there is support here if you need it, it might just be a day or so before you get a response if you need one.

4 Draw some comfort from the fact that the statistics are in your favour - the vast majority of false accusations never see the inside of a court room. They end up NFA (no further action) but it can take a while to get to that point. I THINK that one of the differences between Scotland and England is that the authorities in Scotland have 12 months from the complaint in which to decide to bring a prosecution. I'm not sure if that applies to serious sexual matters but any good lawyer will clarify that for you.

5 Don't be fooled by the police being 'nice' as they are not your friend, though I'm glad to hear that they encouraged you to take a solicitor with you to the interview. Too often they try to persuade people that a lawyer isn't necessary. Of course, if you were happy with the solicitor who accompanied you to that interview, take no notice of my recommendation. :-) That said, if things go further, I do strongly recommend that whatever lawyer you ultimately choose is one with experience of these matters.

6 Remember you're not alone in this, as unfortunately, there are far too many good, innocent men tied up in these kinds of allegations currently. There is support here and there are various support groups online too depending on whether you are part of the caring or teaching professions or it's a historical accusation or not, though from your post I don't think those apply. This is the only forum I know of that's completely anonymous, providing that you don't say stuff about your situation that could identify you or your accuser - you haven't by the way!

Edited - I see Peter1975 has posted as I was typing and has given you some recommendations for other support groups. Good man, Peter!!

Hang in there! The waiting is horrendous, but please, be kind to yourself and try to enjoy Christmas. One of the things that false accusations can do is rob us of joy and good memories, but only if we let them.

[TerrifiedinScotland]

Thank you both - your kind words genuinely mean the world to me

I think the mental health aspect is my biggest concern, I've tried mindfulness which seems to help but it doesn't always ward off the stupid thoughts. I just find myself having little internal monologues with myself on a daily basis about how horrific court would be, and indeed how traumatic the police station experience was. I can't really bring myself to seek help from a doctor as I'd have no idea what to say

To their credit the police were very good, they didn't try and trip me up and gave me lots of words of encouragement after the interview about staying positive. On the plus side it looks like my lawyer is one of those noted on the specialist map which I assume bodes well, particularly as John Keenan and capital defence don't seem to have a working website. The only thing my lawyer has said is ensure I write up everything that happened and keep it safe - but I can't really be expected to bother them in the meantime seeing as they don't get paid for it so have avoided keeping in touch

I expect this place will be invaluable in the coming months as a source of reassurance and advice so thank you again. I'll try my best to stay involved in chats

[Franticwithworry]

Daft as it sounds, I have a little mantra I use when intrusive thoughts get in my way - 'thoughts and feelings are not facts'. It has quite a rhythm to it when it gets going and sometimes drowns everything else out. Worth a try, maybe? Those little monologues are entirely normal, and will lessen by themselves, I can (almost :-)) promise.

I understand you not wanting to talk to a doctor about this but you'd be surprised at their unshockability. They've heard it all before and if you don't like the reaction of one you can see another. That said, you don't have to tell them anything about WHY you are under extreme stress only that you ARE, and what your symptoms are. It's your physical state of being that you need help with, and they don't need to know that details of what got you so stressed. Not that I'm trying to persuade you to see the doctor, just explaining that if you change your mind you don't need to give them detail other than stating the fact that you are under extreme stress in your personal life and and explanation of the physical symptoms. They can't do anything about the investigation so they don't need to know that that is the cause of your distress.

It sounds as though you are sorted out with a specialist solicitor so that's really good. For the benefit of anyone else reading, I checked and Capital Defence Lawyers don't have a functioning website at the moment. I'm not sure why it's offline, but they are still alive and kicking, taking phone calls and their address, phone and fax numbers still function. I don't suppose for a moment that the lack of a website affects the quality of their work. :-)

Great advice from the solicitor in the meantime and I'm glad that the police were nice to you. Just one thing though - if by any chance the police contact you directly again or something comes to light that you think is of evidential value that you think the police should have, be sure to go through the solicitor and don't deal directly with the police. It's that kind of thing that the solicitor can and will help with at this stage. Otherwise, you're right, keeping in touch with them doesn't help anything.

Hopefully we'll see you involved in chats and you'll be telling us that this case is going nowhere in the not too distant future.

[Peter1975]

Keeping sane in an insane situation, especially when you don't know what is going on is always a challenge. It's natural for your mind to wander into dark places and imagine the worst case scenario but you are a very long way off having to worry about that just yet and are likely not to have to worry about it at all. The antidote is to keep your mind busy and occupied, exercise, eat well and don't be afraid to ask for help and support when you need it.


If you are concerned about your mental wellbeing, there are charities such as MIND that may help and there really is no shame in talking to your doctor if you need it.

Sometimes it just helps to talk it out,

FASO have a telephone support service (albeit based in Wales) that is open 6-10pm on weekdays and the samaritans are always excellent if you just need someone to listen.

You really are not alone.


As for the lawyers, no, they are not being paid but if you were to send an email they should take the time to reply and there is nothing stopping you ringing around and getting further opinions.

Hang in there.

Edited to add, I see that Frantic and I have been typing at the same time again! - an provided excellent advice as usual

[Carl]

Hi there. So sorry you are here, I am in scotland, my son was arrested 15months ago, he also had consensual sex with a girl he knew but she got caught out by her boyfriend and 4 days later claimed it was rape. My son was 17 at the time but treated as an adult because we are here in scotland. It has been a very long process, he was released on bail after a night and day in the cells and a trip to a closed court. A year went by before anythng else happened, he just had to get on the best he could. He had to go to glasgow for a hearing where he just had to give his name an he pled not guilty, that was in august this year, whilst there he got a trial date which was this week. We had to goto the high court in aberdeen for the trial which thankfully on tuesday this week ended with my son being acquitted. The accuser lied and contradicted herself so many times that her own council decided to throw the thing out of court before even listening to witness evidence. A liar will always be caught out because its easy to forget what lies youve told but you don't forget the truth. You might be in for a long wait but try to stay strong and do talk to those you have told about it.

[TerrifiedinScotland]

Thanks all for the advice, and Carl, great news for your son. I can only imagine the relief you feel now it's over and hope he can move foward positively with his life. Just a shame it took so lomg and went so far to get that

Peter/Frantic you seem to have some form of telepathy haha! The Scottish legal system does seem to have its peculiarities and I can't pretend to understand them but for now I've not been charged, bailed or had anything taken from me (phone etc). I think everyone from the party has been interviewed now (some are my friends) and from the advice my lawyer gave it seems like it will hinge on DNA evidence which isn't deemed a priority hence the wait. I'm just dreading the day it comes crashing back into my life again. Are things like the Facebook group safe to use? I'd imagine if the police took my phone they could see I was a member?

[Peter1975]

Sorry TIS, I was away for the weekend and missed your post.

Well, you are as safe as you keep yourself really. You can preserve your anonymity by using a false facebook account for example and always keep identifying details to yourself, especially here on DM.

You have to ask what the police would see if they did take your phone really,... what could learn if they read your posts here on DM for example? not much they don't already know.

I don't think they care anyway.

[TerrifiedinScotland]

No worries Peter, thanks for getting back to me ☺

Yeah I suppose that's all true, it's silly to 2nd guess all that kind of stuff. I'm not even sure if they'd want my phone, we never exchanged details or have ever spoken to one another before or after.

Thanks for all the advice, I've decided to go to my doctor and see if I can get some help. My brain fog has been horrific even 2 months in and im struggling massively at work, particularly as it's a high pressure role. Hopefully they can offer some form of support, though I'll avoid mentioning in any real detail why

[TerrifiedinScotland]

So almost 11 months later I've still not heard anything at all, does anyone know if this is common? I contacted my lawyer and was informed that nothing had been submitted to the PF. From this she concludes that it's unlikely to go any further and not to contact the OIC

Whilst the prospect of it not progressing is great, and time has allowed me to move on to a degree, it's tough not having that definitive closure and apparently I may not ever get contacted again if the decision is not to proceed. This can't be right can it?

[Franticwithworry]

Yes, it's common TerrifiedinScotland, unfortunate as that is. there are so many things about the judicial system in the whole of the UK that just aren't 'right' that I could write a book but others have done it before me. :-)

The advice not to contact the OIC is sound - don't rock the boat at the moment. No news is good news so don't go reminding anyone of your existence and so prompt them to revisit your file. It's absolutely wrong that you don't get notification of closure but the fact of the matter is that even if they inform you of NFA, the case can be reviewed if they are given any more evidence later. There is a 12 month limit on charging in Scotland so give it a few more months before you ask your solicitor again if it's worth asking the police for an update. You may feel more inclined to let sleeping dogs lie at that point too. Different Fiscals have different ways of doing things so in some areas you'll eventually be contacted and in others not.

Like I said, be patient for a little longer if you can. It's not right, but it is what it is I'm afraid.

I hope the rest of your life is going well and you've been able to keep the struggles at work to a minimum. :-)

[Peter1975]

I seem to recall a couple of Scottish cases where the defendant simply heard nothing more. Just hang tight as FWW says.

I don't know why there is no formal procedure for a defendant to be informed when cases are not proceeded with. Defendant's being left in limbo not knowing their fate is hardly fair which conversely is the reason for Scotland's 12 month "time bar".

I must disagree with FWW, perhaps erroneously, but I am not aware of any time limit on "charging" in Scotland. As far as I can recall, the 12 month limit only applies to the commencement of trial once a defendant has been "petitioned" ( formally indicted) at court - A suspect can be charged by the police and released the next day by the Sheriff, without being petitioned

The police can release without charging too which it appears to be the case here.

The limit is designed to bring trials to a conclusion in a timely manner, I'm fairly sure it doesn't put any limit on an investigation which can be painfully slow.

Anyway, try to keep cool. Hopefully no news is good news.

[Franticwithworry]

My apologies - I’m really tired at the moment and got things a bit muddled in my last post so I did a bit of checking. Peter is correct in that there is a 12-month limit from charge to trial, but as I understand it For less serious crimes people can be summonsed to the lower courts without ever having been questioned by the police and that is supposed to be within 12 months of the complaint rather than charge. That’s where my confusion came from.

Again my apologies.