Life completely ruined

[papercut]

Hi Guys,

I only found this forum a few days ago, but have so far found it extremely useful reading and it is helping me to cope with what is happening to me.

I have recently been arrested and questions under caution about a rape allegation. I have been released without charge pending further investigation. The accuser is a colleague who I work in the same office with, and as such the allegation is also highly likely to lead to gross misconduct and me loosing my job. We were at a work event staying in the same hotel when the incident is claimed to have happened. I don't know my accuser particularly well and would only occasionally speak to her if she was there on a work night out or something along those lines.

I am frighted to go into the detail here as anyone could be viewing, but the sex was consensual. She changed her mind during the act and we stopped. Once it stopped, she moved away, put some clothes on and went to sleep in another part of the room. She didn't leave the room and has said as much to the police, despite having the opportunity to do so. The only detail that differs here is that she said she was raped before she decided to sleep in a different part of the room. Both of us had been drinking and both of us have also stated as much to the police.

I was arrested about 14 hours after we had been together. I nearly hit the floor when I was told what I was being arrested for. I have never been arrested for anything in my life and try to be generally be a good person, but I have cheated on my girlfriend. I feel like I am in a bad dream, but can’t wake up.

During my police interview, I had a duty solicitor that helped my prepare a written statement in response to the police disclosure that was provided by my accuser, outlining my denial of the allegation and what actually happened. I then responded no comment to all questions put forward by the police. The statements that both of us have provided are very similar to a point, until it comes to the matter of consent. She claims that she was not consenting to the act and that she was trying to sleep and telling me to go away, however that is a lie.

I have told my girlfriend of several years about the incident and what happened on the night and have come clean about past infidelities. All of which was really hard. The combination of which has ended our relationship and I have had to move out. We are still talking to one another and she has been great supporting me through this mess so far. I have broken her trust which makes me feel ashamed and I take full responsibility for, but she knows I am not capable of doing anything like that.

Since me release, I have just been trying to gather as much info as I can and have put together everything I can think of, including event timelines, details of the day and night. What the police said within their questioning of me, etc.
The accuser is not someone I am linked to through social media, but have started thinking that I should be trying to explore what she is posting/doing on there somehow, but obviously without contacting her.

I feel like I am in a living nightmare and have only told a couple of close friends, as I am really struggling to deal with it myself. I used to be fairly social and would be out and about with friends doing things and generally enjoying myself, but since my arrest I am struggling to leave the house and when I do, I am completely on edge the whole time. I basically ignore virtually everyone’s phone calls and most people that know me, just think I am going through a hard break-up, they have no idea what is really going on and the additional trauma I am having to try and deal with. A number of colleagues in work have contacted me who obviously don’t know what is happening to ask if I am OK and I don’t know how to even begin to respond to them. They think I am off sick.

I have talked to a number of solicitors and my head is spinning with it all. Some solicitors are saying I should act now and try and persuade the CPS that it is not in the public’s interest to put me on trial, whilst others have said to wait until/if I am charged. I am hugely concerned about the costs of something like this and the burden this would put on my family. Whilst I do have some money tied up in a property, I don’t want to push my ex out of the property because of this ****. I have already put her through enough!!

Every possible scenario has gone through my mind and I am obsessing over it constantly. I have thought about suicide, but I could not put my family or loved ones through that. I just want things to return to relative normality so I can try and get on with my life. What can I do? I just feel completely lost and hopeless. I thought I would be feeling anger by now, but I just feel completely numb and like I won’t be able to trust anyone again.

[Peter1975]

Welcome to DM Papercut.

It's always sad to see a new poster but good to hear that you have been reading and gaining from the experience of all those that have contributed over the years.

If you have been reading then you will see that Dinosaur20 and Sam have recently been "NFA'd" which should give you cause for some optimism.

The majority of these cases (80%) do not go any further than the investigation stage so there is plenty of hope yet. Keep that chin up!

It would seem that you are entirely on the right track with timelines etc and yes, keeping an eye and screenshotting her SM if possible is never a bad idea.

There is no legal aid for pre charge advice and so if you are to make representations to the police/CPS you would have to pay for a solicitors time. Generally speaking, if you have offered a rebuttal in interview ( or a prepared statement ) and have little to add then waiting is pretty much all you can do.

Should you be charged, the threshold for legal aid is pretty high so I wouldn't worry about that at this stage.

Your life isn't ruined although it might seem like it right now, you can and you will get through this, I promise.

It's difficult to not obsess and go through the what if's but it really does no good, just try and deal with each stage as it comes and realise that the next stage might not arrive. People get good news all the time, You sound like you are doing all the right things just in case so try to put the worries to one side, if only for a while.

Try and deal with things on a daily basis, carry on with your routine, keep busy, confide in close friends or family and visit your doctor if you feel you need it. Eat well, exercise. Carry on with your life

Keep posting for support

[papercut]

Hi Peter1975,

Thank you for your reply. I just never imagined I would ever be in a situation like this. The whole thing is completely surreal!

I guess from what you are saying and what other posts I have read on here, its now completely out of my hands what happens next. There doesn't seem to be any point on getting a solicitor to act now as I have already provided a police statement. Is there any likelihood that I might be brought back in for further questioning and if so, would it be worth having a descent solicitor in place by then? Should I pass notes on to a solicitor at this stage, or just wait for an outcome?

I don't feel in control of anything at the minute and the thought of someone sitting behind a desk determining my future and what that looks like is a scary one indeed. I am the one that is supposed to determine what my future looks like, yet I am sitting here basically twiddling my thumbs waiting on someone to toss a coin which will impact the outcome of my life.

It just seems like too much to deal with at the minute - accused of rape, end of relationship, loss of my home and the likely loss of my job. In the immediate future, if I loose my job (which to me seems highly likely), I will still have mortgage payments to cover.

Sorry if I am venting, but it is much easier to write about this than to speak about it at the minute.

[imsam]

Hi Papercut, I am Sam that has so recently just been through the hell that you are in , your case has so many similarities to mine I had to reply and just say Hang in there man. Peter talks a lot of good sense ( he was a great help to me as I went through my 18 months nightmare)

Actually reading your post , I feel you have a stronger case than I did, but basically the same...she said , he said . I feel the current climate in the press is more kindly towards the FA then it was 18 months ago , because of recent cases ( read Ponds threads)

But the upshot of my case is that I too lost my long time partner and some access to my child , and my house , Luckily the NFA came and so saved my job...but then I was unfaithful to my partner, so as far as losing my GF goes it was my own fault

It is hard to understand why these girls do this, I did find out that there is a financial compensation paid to Rape victims, which I don't think was my girls motivation . Have you any idea why your accuser has accused you of rape?

It sounds to me as if half way through your girl realised what she was doing and regretted it , and especially as you work together she worried you may tell others about what happened with her, so made up this story to save her face ( I think this was what happened with my accuser ) I don't think the girls realise at the start exactly what their reporting to the police means for the FA

Anyway I know me saying try not to worry, won't really help you too much , but hard as it is to believe LOADS of these cases do get NFA's I've only been on the site for 18 months, but there have been so many NFA's or NG results , that the numbers do not lie.

Best to try to keep busy and put it out of your mind for as much as you can , it can be a long slow process ,

GOOD LUCK
Sam

[papercut]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your reply. I have just had a quick read through your story and there does indeed seem to be similarities. I am very happy that an NFA has come back for you. You must feel so relieved!!!

It just feels like too much to handle for me at the minute, but I am trying to struggle through and will be going to visit my doctor again next week to get some help.

I have no idea what my accuser's motivation is/was to report me. I really don't know her well enough to give you an accurate picture of what kind of person she is or how her mind works, but what you are saying makes sense. She changed her mind, we stopped and she went to sleep in another part of the same room. There was a very specific reason why she stopped and she mentioned this reason when she moved away from me. Her disclosure statement conveniently did not include this detail and in fact says she said something completely different, but my statement does mention the reason why it stops and the detail makes sense in terms of what others might think of her.

I guess I am in for a long bumpy ride. The only think keeping me busy at the minute is trying to think through all the details of everything around it and document them, which I know isn't healthy and is increasing my anxiety, but I feel like I need to do this now, so I am at least prepared.

Thanks
Papercut

[Peter1975]

Hi Peter1975,

Thank you for your reply. I just never imagined I would ever be in a situation like this. The whole thing is completely surreal!

I guess from what you are saying and what other posts I have read on here, its now completely out of my hands what happens next. There doesn't seem to be any point on getting a solicitor to act now as I have already provided a police statement. Is there any likelihood that I might be brought back in for further questioning and if so, would it be worth having a descent solicitor in place by then? Should I pass notes on to a solicitor at this stage, or just wait for an outcome?

I don't feel in control of anything at the minute and the thought of someone sitting behind a desk determining my future and what that looks like is a scary one indeed. I am the one that is supposed to determine what my future looks like, yet I am sitting here basically twiddling my thumbs waiting on someone to toss a coin which will impact the outcome of my life.

It just seems like too much to deal with at the minute - accused of rape, end of relationship, loss of my home and the likely loss of my job. In the immediate future, if I loose my job (which to me seems highly likely), I will still have mortgage payments to cover.

Sorry if I am venting, but it is much easier to write about this than to speak about it at the minute.

Apologies for the delay Papercut, I'm super busy right now.

There is a possibility of a further interview yes. It's always worth having a decent solicitor lined up just so you know who to call if you need them. Having a chat with a couple might give you some reassurance.

There is a thread for recommended sols in the useful information section, let us know if you can't see one in your area. :

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/f...ul-Information


I know that it's a scary experience and yes, much is out of your control, but you can deal with it a bit and one day at a time.

Hang in there.

[Franticwithworry]

Hi papercut,

I second Peter1975's excellent advice to line up a specialist solicitor as soon as you can; for piece of mind as well as nothing more complicated than giving you something positive to do in these first worrying weeks. I speak from experience. We found it absolutely invaluable, knowing exactly whom to call when we were told that my husband was to be re-interviewed. They can only do that if they have more information that they want to ask questions about, and it doesn't happen very often, but it was unbelievably calming when it happened to us and the phone call to arrange representation could be made without panic.

I'm sorry that you are going through this anguish. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but you will get through it, and there's lots of support here while you do.

[papercut]

Thanks for your kind words Peter1975 and Franticwithworry. It is reassuring to know that other people are there and listening.

I am trying my best to cope, but am finding it really hard. My mum and dad are both extremely worried and I am finding it very difficult to talk about it to them. They both don't understand the nature of this sort of thing and to neither did I until I came to this message board. I don't really want to burden them any further with worries around it.

I have looked at a few solicitors and depending on cost, I will probably go with Chris Saltrese if I can afford to. I have already been in contact with Sarah from his office about the allegation. If it came to it, would he be able to help with a second interview and then further down the line, if I could not afford him would I be able to switch?

My concern at the minute is if it comes to it, will I be able to afford him as I have no idea what defending something like this would cost and also if I will in fact be in a job or not. I still have work meetings in front of me at this stage, but I can't imagine them wanting me to come back to work.

Peter1975, do you mind if I message you privately around solicitors as I am not sure what area I would need to find one in? Saying what I need to here about this would probably give away too much information.

Thanks
Papercut

[soulbug]

Thanks for your kind words Peter1975 and Franticwithworry. It is reassuring to know that other people are there and listening.

I am trying my best to cope, but am finding it really hard. My mum and dad are both extremely worried and I am finding it very difficult to talk about it to them. They both don't understand the nature of this sort of thing and to neither did I until I came to this message board. I don't really want to burden them any further with worries around it.

I have looked at a few solicitors and depending on cost, I will probably go with Chris Saltrese if I can afford to. I have already been in contact with Sarah from his office about the allegation. If it came to it, would he be able to help with a second interview and then further down the line, if I could not afford him would I be able to switch?

My concern at the minute is if it comes to it, will I be able to afford him as I have no idea what defending something like this would cost and also if I will in fact be in a job or not. I still have work meetings in front of me at this stage, but I can't imagine them wanting me to come back to work.

Peter1975, do you mind if I message you privately around solicitors as I am not sure what area I would need to find one in? Saying what I need to here about this would probably give away too much information.

Thanks
Papercut

Hi, I'm sorry to read of your unfortunate situation, I had the need around 4 years ago to require Chris Saltease services, my case went as far as crown court but the case was thrown out by the judge before trial based on "abuse of process" argument, i had the services of Chris and the wonderful barrister Tania Griffiths my bill was around 8k, thankfully I could claim all my costs back, but if my memory serves me correctly I think I was quoted around 30k if it was going to be a 5 day trial.

Sadly these days even if you win, you cannot claim back the costs....

Prices my of gone up of course... But Chris is very very good and definitely not the most expensive.

[Franticwithworry]

Speaking as a Mum, (though it's my man who is accused), if you can talk to her even a bit it will allay some of her worries. Feel free to point your parents in the direction of this forum too if they are at all computer-confident. They are very welcome here and would receive lots of support. there are a number of parents here supporting their accused children.

Chris Saltrese works nationally and a lot of solicitors do. There is no issue with planning on using Chris if you are charged but a more local solicitor to the police if you need someone for a re-interview, or paying Chris to travel if you prefer. If you didn't already ask, call back and ask for an estimate as to costs. Chris happily gave my man one so we knew what we are working with from the beginning. There are lots of options and it is much easier to change solicitors if you are paying privately. With legal aid it gets more complicated as you have to demonstrate a reason and the solicitors and the Legal Aid Board have to agree.

The simplest thing to do when looking for a solicitor who is local to you is to look for one who is based in the county where the investigating police force operate and ask them how far afield from their office they work. Some like to keep things tight to their offices, many do not.

Please don't assume that you will lose your job. It gets very tricky if you work with vulnerable people, teaching, NHS, caring professions, things like that, but if you don't there is no reason for you to be sacked or even suspended at this stage. I realise that you work with your accuser, but there are potentially options that you haven't yet thought of - moving your office perhaps? My man's employers have been wonderfully supportive, even when his work equipment was seized. The fact is that you are innocent and you are entitled to behave as if you are. Expect your employers to treat you as such and you might be surprised. I know it's a long shot, but acting like a guilty man from the outset isn't necessary. Only you can judge how far to take that though. :-)

Don't forget too, that the vast majority of false accusations are recognised as being exactly what they are. that doesn't mean that you don't have a long and difficult road ahead of you or that it won't be a struggle to put your life back on track, but it does mean that this is a tunnel you have been put in and there is light at the end of it. Be kind to yourself. You have done nothing wrong and you are not alone in this situation.

[papercut]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the valuable information and kind words. Getting a solicitor where the investigating police force operate makes sense, however I wasn't completely sure. Cost wise I will have to go back to Chris again and try to get an understanding of what that might look like but will also look at a few local options.

With regard to work, I have already met them once so far and made it clear that I am innocent and have informed them that I want to return to work. The thought of going back fills me with fear, but I have done nothing wrong so feel that if the opportunity is available I should return.

I will try and talk to my mum and dad a bit more about it and direct them to this forum to get a better understanding of these types of accusation. It might help us all cope a little bit better.

Thank you for replaying to me guys, all your advise and support are really appreciated.

Thanks
Papercut

[Franticwithworry]

It’s always good to have options. You have precious few when you get caught up in this nonsense. I can vouch for the fact that Chris and his team are wonderful, supportive and helpful and he takes cases nationwide. However, talking to more than one firm so you can make an informed choice will never be frowned upon by a good firm. If you need a solicitor for a re-interview further south, Harvey Fox from Freemans is second to none. He’s a police station specialist and Freemans have excellent specialist solicitors too.

Don’t forget that any fees quoted will have VAT on top unless you’re told they’re included. At 20% it’s wise so check. :-(

Best wishes on your quest to return to work. I’ll keep an eye out for you mum and/or dad.

[Peter1975]

Thanks for your kind words Peter1975 and Franticwithworry. It is reassuring to know that other people are there and listening.

I am trying my best to cope, but am finding it really hard. My mum and dad are both extremely worried and I am finding it very difficult to talk about it to them. They both don't understand the nature of this sort of thing and to neither did I until I came to this message board. I don't really want to burden them any further with worries around it.

I have looked at a few solicitors and depending on cost, I will probably go with Chris Saltrese if I can afford to. I have already been in contact with Sarah from his office about the allegation. If it came to it, would he be able to help with a second interview and then further down the line, if I could not afford him would I be able to switch?

My concern at the minute is if it comes to it, will I be able to afford him as I have no idea what defending something like this would cost and also if I will in fact be in a job or not. I still have work meetings in front of me at this stage, but I can't imagine them wanting me to come back to work.

Peter1975, do you mind if I message you privately around solicitors as I am not sure what area I would need to find one in? Saying what I need to here about this would probably give away too much information.

Thanks
Papercut

Yes, CS would be able to help with a second interview if necessary, possibly using a local agent. You would need to speak to his office about that and what he may be able to do for you right now. He will give you some idea of costs too. I would imagine there won't be a lot of change out of 50k if there is a trial.

Should you be charged (and remember that the odds are against it) and decide that paying privately is too expensive then you could and should be able to apply for legal aid. It's a bit complicated but you would need disposable income in excess of 37,500 PA* after deducting living allowances, mortgage payments, credit cards etc to not be eligible at all. You may be asked to pay contributions which can be pretty steep , depending on how much you earn. Assets and savings over 30,000 are only taken into account after a conviction. (* off the top of my head - please ask a LA solicitor! )

Despite the savage cuts, the majority of cases are won by good LA solicitors and all costs and contributions are refunded on acquittal. If you pay privately then you will only be reimbursed the amount that LA would pay and only then if you have been through the rigmarole of applying for LA.

There is an online calculator for LA :

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/criminal...-means-testing

You may also consider contacting an employment law solicitor for some advice. Our favourite solicitors, Freemans in London, have a free half hour clinic on Mondays I think... - I'm afraid I can't find the bookmark right now but google should find it.

Yes, you are welcome to PM me, I think you have made the required number of posts for the software to allow it.... I may not get back to you straight away though, I'm super busy at the moment.

[papercut]

Thanks Franticwithworry,

Fingers crossed with work, but I am not holding out much hope for that one to be honest.

I will have a look and see if I can find suitable alternative solicitors to talk to. I have talked to about four companies so far, but Chris is the only one I think I would be comfortable with out of them. Doesn't hurt to talk to a few more and I will point my parents in the direction of this message board.

Thanks
Papercut

[papercut]

Hi Peter1975,

Thanks for getting back to me with more great info. £50k is a lot of money and I really don't know if I would have those kinds of funds for something like this if it came to it. I guess those conversations are for later if its something I need to look at (fingers crossed not though).

I will have a look at the calculator and see where I get to with it I guess based on my current working situation. I will see if I can message you about recommendations.

Thanks
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