How to get Bad character Evidence

[djames70]

Hello Everyone,

I was accused by my wife of rape.

I'm black African and she is white.

We have one child

In her statement, she claimed she said no

She claimed I replied saying; "I'm an African man and my wife can't tell me no".

Not true at all!

It is a typical African statement so it feeds the stereotype.

As a result, the Investigating Police Officer believes her.

The marriage has broken down long ago but we hadn't yet separated until this.

The social service got involved (because of the child)

I have seen the report written by the social service

In her discussion with social service, she claimed she was pregnant in 2014 and 2015 and had miscarriages on both occasions.

It is not true at all!

She also said she stopped work in 2010 to cater for the child but the truth is she was made redundant.

I guess she said all those to gain sympathy from the social service worker

And really, that is who she is; attention seeker with a strong victim mentality.

My question is this;

I wish to point to those statements (pregnancies, miscarriages and redundancy) as evidence of bad character

I have been told that because she didn't make the statement in her Witness Statement to the police it is not relevant.

Please, how true is that?

The fact that she lied to the social service means she has the propensity to lie.

I wish to introduce that as Bad Character evidence

I have written to the CPS to make inquiries into those statements.

They seem to be dragging their feet over the issue.

The lady over the phone refused to confirm if they are legally required to make inquiries into their witness.

Sorry for the long discussion

Can I introduce those statements as bad character evidence?

Have the CPS got a legal obligation to look into issues regarding the credibility of their witness?


Thanks

[Peter1975]

Hello and welcome Djames70.

I'm sorry you have to come and join us but we will do our best to support you.

The questions you ask require legal advice but I'm afraid none of us are lawyers. Do you have a solicitor?

Bad character in particular is a very complicated area of the law but I do know that a bad character application at trial would automatically result in any of defendants convictions being revealed to a jury, as does a good character application.

I am assuming from your post that you are awaiting a charging decision which you would obviously hope to avoid.

What I will say in my humble opinion is that the police and the cps should have the social workers report and they should consider any discrepancies between the two and yes, it is their duty to make some assessment of the credibility of the complainant as her credibility is what any potential case rests on.

However, as you say, she hasn't actually lied to the police in her statement (about those things) so they may not consider those facts relevant to her complaint. They may also consider that she did indeed lie to the social worker for sympathy but that does not automatically follow that she definitely lied about the rape.

Madly,, these days, even a woman that has lied repeatedly about being raped, might still have been raped this time. There is a CPS report about this and how careful they must be in dismissing rape claims and prosecuting the liars. It's about 40 pages long but well worth a read: http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_ne...the_spotlight/


Again in my humble opinion, the lies to the social worker would become relevant to your defence at trial and should be available in the unused material from the disclosure process, but again, get proper legal advice on this as there may be some use in trying to get the cps to consider it in their charging decision and also, I could be completely wrong.

We don't like the police here, we tend to think of them as psychopaths, hell bent on securing a conviction but 80% of cases do not go to court so there is always hope that the police and cps will see sense.

You seem like you have your head on straight but as someone else wisely put here recently, prepare for nothing to make sense.

[Franticwithworry]

So far as I know the CPS have no legal obligation to check the credibility of anyone. All they look at is whether ir not the evidence they have is likely to secure a conviction. That said 80% of complaints go nowhere so at least some false/unreasonable/ridiculous complaints are seen for what they are.

The police are human beings too. Many, even most, of them may be too focussed on convictions, getting all of them the reputation of being single-minded psychopaths, but by the law of averages, some must be old-school reasonable people.

I truly hope you have one of those. I have come across the situation where the police take notice of social services reports and outcomes. Again, I hope that applies for you too. A good solicitor will make good use of all the information that s/he can if it becomes necessary.

[djames70]

Hello and welcome Djames70.

I'm sorry you have to come and join us but we will do our best to support you.

The questions you ask require legal advice but I'm afraid none of us are lawyers. Do you have a solicitor?

Bad character in particular is a very complicated area of the law but I do know that a bad character application at trial would automatically result in any of defendants convictions being revealed to a jury, as does a good character application.

I am assuming from your post that you are awaiting a charging decision which you would obviously hope to avoid.

What I will say in my humble opinion is that the police and the cps should have the social workers report and they should consider any discrepancies between the two and yes, it is their duty to make some assessment of the credibility of the complainant as her credibility is what any potential case rests on.

However, as you say, she hasn't actually lied to the police in her statement (about those things) so they may not consider those facts relevant to her complaint. They may also consider that she did indeed lie to the social worker for sympathy but that does not automatically follow that she definitely lied about the rape.

Madly,, these days, even a woman that has lied repeatedly about being raped, might still have been raped this time. There is a CPS report about this and how careful they must be in dismissing rape claims and prosecuting the liars. It's about 40 pages long but well worth a read: http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_ne...the_spotlight/


Again in my humble opinion, the lies to the social worker would become relevant to your defence at trial and should be available in the unused material from the disclosure process, but again, get proper legal advice on this as there may be some use in trying to get the cps to consider it in their charging decision and also, I could be completely wrong.

We don't like the police here, we tend to think of them as psychopaths, hell bent on securing a conviction but 80% of cases do not go to court so there is always hope that the police and cps will see sense.

You seem like you have your head on straight but as someone else wisely put here recently, prepare for nothing to make sense.

Thanks for the advice.

And thanks for the report.

I have been charged.

I have a lawyer but they are legal aid.

I just have the feeling they want to do as little as possible.

She doesn't have any previous conviction

She has told the pregnancy lies before

She has tried to get registered for ante natal clinics before and the NHS refused (ie in 2014)

I have also seen a case in http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...2#.WQ2rXNIrK02

Where Danny Day was found to be a liar via his NHS medical records

I just want them to see who she is, basically have a fuller picture to make a judgement.

[Peter1975]

Thanks for the advice.

And thanks for the report.

I have been charged.

I have a lawyer but they are legal aid.

I just have the feeling they want to do as little as possible.

There are many brilliant legal aid solicitors that will do everything in their power and most of the successful verdicts in the groups have been on LA. There is a list of recommended sols and barristers in the useful information section.

If you are not confident in your legal team you only have a limited time to change without making an application to the court and providing a good reason for the change, a lack of confidence is not a good reason.I think this is before the PTPH at crown court but it could be after you have been represented at magistrates, I'm not sure.

I really can't advise on how successful a bad character application may be or what could be admissible as relevant to your case, the law just doesn't work the way we want it to unfortunately, I can only caution you that calling bad character will automatically result in your convictions being revealed to the jury.

I would hope that she can be cross examined on the lies she has told to the SW but I can't pretend to understand the law here.

There is always hope and the likelihood that she will fail under cross examination anyway, serial liars just can't help themselves and they are often not prepared to be challenged in the witness box.

[Rights Fighter]

In her discussion with social service, she claimed she was pregnant in 2014 and 2015 and had miscarriages on both occasions.

It is not true at all!

She also said she stopped work in 2010 to cater for the child but the truth is she was made redundant.

This can't be used as bad character. BC relates to previous convictions or cautions.

Should this go to charge / trial then hopefully defence would request her medical records from the CPS and use them to cross-examine her, should they disprove her claims about that.

[Arsenal12]

Sorry to read about your situation...

Without getting too detailed into my own case...

My defence team requested my accusers medical notes as she had made claims that she had gone to the doctors and reported me....claimed injuries etc....I of course new that this was totally false as I had never caused any injuries etc..

My defence team constantly applied to have her medical notes submitted to us...

The prosecution were always making excuses ...saying the her medical notes were in progress to be submitted to us...

I got a call from my barrister for an urgent meeting.....

He then said prosecution have disclosed her medical notes...and surprise surprise her medical notes literally obliterated...her account her devious lies were exposed......

No injuries like she claimed ....total tripe..

My case was littered with huge flaws...this being one of the main points....

After my UNANIMOUS not guilty verdict...I initiated proceedings for her perverting the course of justice......

At first no one was interested in anything I had to say......but then I brought up the medical report....amongst other huge flaws....and evidence I can prove that she made everything up....


Now the police have said they have no option but to take action but have explained that sentencing is not likely to be harsh...

Stay positive

Yes some innocent people get convicted....but you have to remember the Members of jury are diverse ...there will be mothers father's ...old young people.......etc...... hopefully for you justice will prevail......

Do take care of yourself self ....this is a big cliche but.....things like not eating....skipping a meal because your stressed....or changing your daily routine......

These thing can have huge affects on your mind....

Think of this as a boxing fight ...maybe the fight of your life....

Just like a boxer does....you will have to remain sane in a insane situation....

Train your body and mind....and you will prevail

[djames70]

Sorry to read about your situation...



Do take care of yourself self ....this is a big cliche but.....things like not eating....skipping a meal because your stressed....or changing your daily routine......

These thing can have huge affects on your mind....

Think of this as a boxing fight ...maybe the fight of your life....

Just like a boxer does....you will have to remain sane in a insane situation....

Train your body and mind....and you will prevail

Thanks so much for this!

[djames70]

There are many brilliant legal aid solicitors that will do everything in their power and most of the successful verdicts in the groups have been on LA. There is a list of recommended sols and barristers in the useful information section.

If you are not confident in your legal team you only have a limited time to change without making an application to the court and providing a good reason for the change, a lack of confidence is not a good reason.I think this is before the PTPH at crown court but it could be after you have been represented at magistrates, I'm not sure.

I really can't advise on how successful a bad character application may be or what could be admissible as relevant to your case, the law just doesn't work the way we want it to unfortunately, I can only caution you that calling bad character will automatically result in your convictions being revealed to the jury.

I would hope that she can be cross examined on the lies she has told to the SW but I can't pretend to understand the law here.

There is always hope and the likelihood that she will fail under cross examination anyway, serial liars just can't help themselves and they are often not prepared to be challenged in the witness box.

Thanks but I don't have any convictions!

I have only one penalty charge notice and one parking fine

[Rights Fighter]

Thanks but I don't have any convictions!

I have only one penalty charge notice and one parking fine

Make sure that if you are charged, defence request all medical records. Unfortunately the complainant can refuse to allow them to be disclosed, but that on it's own would make for interesting cross-examination.

Where in the UK would any potential trial take place? This would be where the alleged assaults took place. I ask as you would need a solicitor who has experience of defending false allegations, as opposed to defending sex offenders. There is a huge difference.

[Peter1975]

Thanks but I don't have any convictions!

I have only one penalty charge notice and one parking fine

Sorry, I wasn't assuming you had, just stating the law. Calling good character witnesses in your defence also results in convictions being revealed to a jury so you can have friends and colleagues ex girlfriends etc speak up for your character which can be helpful in court and the judge will have to give a good character direction. All good.

It would seem that it is very important for the SW report and her medical records be asked for in the defence case statement. As arsenal has documented, they may be reluctant to hand these over but it is perfectly standard practice for unused materials to be released late into the proceedings.

[Rights Fighter]

if a def is a person of good character they can call character references.

If they are not a person of GC but their misdemeanours were years ago and/or minor and/or completely irrelevant, and jury hears about them, the judge may allow character references.

The judge has to give certain directions to the jury as to how they can use such evidence, for instance that it does not go to propensity - along the lines of "you may think he is less likely to commit the offences of which he has been accused now".

[djames70]

Hello Everyone,

I was accused by my wife of rape.

I'm black African and she is white.

We have one child

In her statement, she claimed she said no

She claimed I replied saying; "I'm an African man and my wife can't tell me no".

Not true at all!

It is a typical African statement so it feeds the stereotype.

As a result, the Investigating Police Officer believes her.

The marriage has broken down long ago but we hadn't yet separated until this.

The social service got involved (because of the child)

I have seen the report written by the social service

In her discussion with social service, she claimed she was pregnant in 2014 and 2015 and had miscarriages on both occasions.

It is not true at all!

She also said she stopped work in 2010 to cater for the child but the truth is she was made redundant.

I guess she said all those to gain sympathy from the social service worker

And really, that is who she is; attention seeker with a strong victim mentality.

My question is this;

I wish to point to those statements (pregnancies, miscarriages and redundancy) as evidence of bad character

I have been told that because she didn't make the statement in her Witness Statement to the police it is not relevant.

Please, how true is that?

The fact that she lied to the social service means she has the propensity to lie.

I wish to introduce that as Bad Character evidence

I have written to the CPS to make inquiries into those statements.

They seem to be dragging their feet over the issue.

The lady over the phone refused to confirm if they are legally required to make inquiries into their witness.

Sorry for the long discussion

Can I introduce those statements as bad character evidence?

Have the CPS got a legal obligation to look into issues regarding the credibility of their witness?


Thanks

Thanks everyone.

I have researched and found out that the CPS has a duty to look into issues regarding the credibility of their witnesses

Below is the CPS guidelines incase anyone needs it later

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...arty_material/


General
The current law in relation to disclosure is set out in the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996, (CPIA) as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003.
Prosecutors must apply the disclosure test contained in the Act by disclosing to the accused any prosecution material which has not previously been disclosed to the accused and which might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the case for the prosecution against the accused or of assisting the case for the accused, save to the extent that the court, on application by the prosecutor, orders it is not in the public interest to disclose it.
The duties imposed on the police and CPS under the Act are not simply about compiling schedules of unused material as part of preparation for court, and then applying the disclosure test. CPIA and Code of Practice CPIA, impose an obligation to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry whether these point towards or away from the suspect. Reasonable lines of enquiry may include enquiries as to the existence of material in the hands of a third party.
Where unused material substantially undermines the prosecution case, assists the defence or raises a fundamental question about the prosecution, prosecutors should reassess the case in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors and decide after consulting with the police whether the case should continue.
Prosecutors should record on the disclosure record sheet (DRS) and on the Prosecution Strategy Document (PSD) all reasons for their decisions about disclosure of medical records and/or counselling notes.
Top of page

Applying the disclosure test
The following are examples of unused material generated during the course of a rape or serious sexual offence investigation that may potentially satisfy the disclosure test and will need to be carefully considered by the prosecutor:

Medical records and psychiatric records, that might go to the credibility of the account of a complainant or other prosecution witness.
Local Authority material, for example Social Services or educational records, that might go to the credibility of the complainant or other prosecution witness.
Material relating to past or current Family Court proceedings.
Information that the complainant is pursuing a civil claim for compensation, and documentation relating to such a claim. Similarly, documentation relating to applications for compensation made to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority. (However the mere fact of such a claim should not be regarded as automatically undermining to the prosecution or assisting the defence.)
Information relating to previous complaints made by the complainant.
Scientific and scenes of crime findings which do not advance the prosecution case. In particular, scientific findings which indicate that the complainant has consumed alcohol or taken drugs prior to the alleged offence. (Note, however, that high consumption of alcohol/drugs might indicate that the complainant was lacking the capacity to consent in accordance with section 74 Sexual Offences Act 2003. It might therefore be evidence that the prosecutor will wish to adduce as part of the Crown's case).
Telephone evidence; and in particular, the content of text messages passing between the complainant and the suspect/defendant at the relevant time.
Previous convictions/cautions relating to the complainant or other prosecution witnesses.

[Rights Fighter]

What the CPS and police should do are often far removed from what actually happens

[djames70]

What the CPS and police should do are often far removed from what actually happens

That is so true