Police bail limits finally in force from today

[innocent1984]

At least I can see the day starting with some positive news. How ever this will not solve the concerns we have but better than having nothing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7663196.html

I would prefer a law that focuses to understand how police are investigating. Police will now take their sweet time to complete investigation and i am sure they will take this new act as a reason to keep the cases pending for years.

I hope it is the time for real victims to raise their concerns over length of time taken for completing police investigations.

[Bob1234]

Thank you for posting this. I am currently on bail... what would be the implications of this for someone like myself ... does this mean that if bail is extended the next time it can only remain for 28days before a decision is made whether to charge or nfa?

[innocent1984]

You can be rebailed upto 3 months with higher ranking Police officers approval but they need to explain to magistrate court the reasons if they need to re bail again.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...pter/1/enacted

You can refer to the details from the link above PART 4 PACE section 47ZA - 47ZF.

I hope police will take advantage of leaving suspects with out bail subject to further investigation.

[Franticwithworry]

Bail itself isn't the issue for many people, it's the long, long wait under a dark cloud with no decision. Sadly, that won't change necessarily.

[experience3]

Thank you for posting this. I am currently on bail... what would be the implications of this for someone like myself ... does this mean that if bail is extended the next time it can only remain for 28days before a decision is made whether to charge or nfa?

Bob, I don't know what the answer to that is - it seem to be a bit of a grey area, however I happen to be answering bail on Wednesday and I will post what happens. I have already been on bail for 6 months. As far as I have seen from the changes transitional cases are a bit of an oddity.

I presume that in the event I am rebailed, it will be for 28 days but I will let you know.

Can I ask people who are rebailed in the next few weeks to make a point of posting and saying what happened, as I guess that would be helpful to people who are in transition.

[experience3]

Bail itself isn't the issue for many people, it's the long, long wait under a dark cloud with no decision. Sadly, that won't change necessarily.

Although I accept that this is "conventional wisdom" I don't necessarily accept that as true at this stage Frantic. I accept that in due course it might become true, but I think people are forgetting some key issues.

Consider, who are the police most concerned about protecting? Ans. It is not the "victim" it is themselves.

Now I am on bail for rape, giving them a potential problem down the line, you see if they do not inflict provisions on me via the bail system, then should I go and rape someone else, people are going to lose their jobs. We all know that this is an absolute no-no for the police, it is after all more important than ANYTHING else. This leaves them a quandry doesn't it - do they go through the bail system, and hence the pain of explaining to magistrates time and again why they need more time even though they have done fck all to move the case along. Or do they keep investigating without bail and take their chances.

Moving forward either there are going to be a lot of scandals about how rapist x raped "victim" y even though he was under investigation by the police for n years.

Or magistrates are going to become very very tired of hearing the same old nonsense of why the police need more time and start finding against them.

I am not saying that you (and others saying the same as you) are wrong, I am just saying it is unproven, and that the police who serve themselves more than anybody else now have an incentive (albeit not much of one) to close these cases down.

This COULD BE very positive - though to my thinking it might take several years to filter through.

I know you will be only too pleased to be wrong anyways so lets hope you are.

Love and kisses and everything

Ex

[Bob1234]

Bail itself isn't the issue for many people, it's the long, long wait under a dark cloud with no decision. Sadly, that won't change necessarily.

Is it not changing to 28 days and a further 3 months only? That is what I understand it to be? From here decisions have to be made... if that's the case wouldn't that shorten the time and at least we would know... in 3 months there will be a decision rather than ... it could be endless re bail? I may have got that totally wrong however - apologies if I have.

Yes please let us know how your bail goes... all the best with it

[Franticwithworry]

At least two well-respected and experienced lawyers have already posted elsewhere that they have seen changes in how the police use bail in anticipation of this law.

Also, if the police were focussing more or solely on protecting themselves, I think my man's bail conditions would be quite different.

The truth is, we will have to just see what happens as each force seems to be a law unto themselves as to who gets bail and who doesn't.

[experience3]

Is it not changing to 28 days and a further 3 months only? That is what I understand it to be? From here decisions have to be made... if that's the case wouldn't that shorten the time and at least we would know... in 3 months there will be a decision rather than ... it could be endless re bail? I may have got that totally wrong however - apologies if I have.

Yes please let us know how your bail goes... all the best with it

No Bob that is not it at all unfortunately. You can still be rebailed endlessly. However now, the police (ie your OIC) can only bail you for 28 days. After that you can be rebailed by a senior officer (who is expected will always side with the OIC) for 2 more months, however that can only happen once. After that there is a magistrates court hearing, when the police can ask for a 3 month extension, that can be repeated. Mags are generally regarded as "police friendly", so we do not yet know what the result of those hearings will be.

It is a significant change, but one that we do not yet really know how it will pan out. The original idea (I am not saying that the changes meet the purposes of that idea) is that the police should not be able to bail people for year son end without oversight. So now at least theoretically oversight is provided by the mags court.

As you will see with other posts people on here do have different opinions as to how useful this will be in practice and a lot of the lawyers believe that how the police will "play" this is to not bail you but keep investigating for years on end as they do now and then not bother to tell you when they NFA you.

Somewhat perversely therefore, if you are arrested this p.m. then you may (sort of) WANT to be released on bail rather than released without bail.

[innocent1984]

I have searched the current legislation and found that the Transitional provision in respect of pre-charge bail is only for people arrested from 02 nd April 2017. Please find the below link for reference.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0170399_en.pdf

Key points are

Transitional provision in respect of pre-charge bail
5.—(1) Sections 52 to 58, 60 and 62 to 65 of the Act do not apply in relation to a person in
respect of an offence if the person was—
(a) first arrested for the offence on or before 2nd April 2017;
(b) given a conditional caution in respect of the offence on or before 2nd April 2017.
(2) In this regulation “conditional caution” has the same meaning as in Part 3 of the Criminal
Justice Act 2003(a).



12. Sections 52 to 60 (release without bail or on bail).
13. Section 61 (bail before charge: conditions of bail etc).
14. Section 62 (limit on period of bail under section 30A of PACE).
15. Section 63 (limits on period of bail without charge under Part 4 of PACE) in so far as it is
not already in force.
16. Section 64 (section 63: consequential amendments).
17. Section 65 (release under provisions of PACE: re-arrest).
18. Sections 66 and 67 (notification of decision not to prosecute).
19. Sections 68 and 69 (breach of pre-charge bail conditions relating to travel).

[experience3]

Interesting - Good find though!

[experience3]

As per innocent's excellent post.

I was rebailed yesterday for a further 3 months (after 3-4-17).

It looks as thought the Police (MPS) are interested in the letter of the Law rather than the spirit - who would have thought lol.