Interviews

[sqounk]

Out of interest, the procedure so far as I can tell is; 1, initial interview with complainant 2, interview the suspect - following this, 3, go and interview complainant again with all the details about what the suspect has said, giving the complainant the opportunity of changing their story.

Is this lawful (including European law), because it gives an unfair advantage to the complainant - i.e. access to the suspects testimony whereas the reverse is not true. Therefore the scales of justice are dipping one way already I am thinking.

Secondly, if the complainant changes their story to the extent that it contradicts their first version of events or perception of events as a result of information supplied from the defendant via the OIC, how solid is that in court for the defence to make an issue out of? I would hope it would be a significant element in proving a person is of unreliable character?

Also, if their version of events changes surely the suspect must be informed or would that happen after charge?
Lastly, coaching is surely illegal for the police as it is for defence/prosecution teams, so to what extent are complainants prompted to change their version of events if they are? Is there any real evidence of this happening or is it more likely that complainants are given the window of opportunity to do this without prompting?

What I cannot work out is, if this is happening a lot, the defence teams must surely leap on what must often be contradictory or significantly altered version of events by complainants and it must contribute to an eventual acquittal. How could a jury be beyond reasonable doubt with someone who has changed their testimony to suit their own purposes?


* Providing it is a given that the suspect has been informed of certain elements of the complainants first disclosure at their interview by the duty solicitor or OIC

[Jakwatts]

The problem is that many accused persons have been brought to the police station by misleading pretences by the police..we just need to clear this up..you can have a brief if you want, but you dont really need one....get it off the books...dot the i's & cross the t's...would you like a brew?? Are you watching the game later?? You'll be out in time to get to pub for pint...hey love, that police officer was a nice lad or lass....then the seriousness changes a bit & this could be by the 6am knock on the door to arrest you..remember..that nice police officer!!!or in a more serious tone now..asked to attend the police station...and it would NOW be advisable to bring a solicitor...oh..but I've already given a record in my last interview I had!!!
Now the problem is you are most likely using a legal aid solicitor who to be brutally honest will do the minimum & couldn't really care if you are found guilty or not guilty.
All the investigation MUST be done during your bail time ready for trial..it is very difficult to get fresh evidence passed after conviction as 9 times out of 10 the judge will say..well you had your chance to present this evidence at your trial so tough (not beating about the bush terminology here)
You must get someone to get the evidence and be like a dog with a bone as your legal aid solicitor certainly won't do it and the next thing they will be visiting you as you sit shell shocked in the court cells starting your lengthy prison sentence, passing a 'well I didn't expect that...I am surprised' as their mobile buzzes with a text asking what time they're meeting for a pint..to be frank..they don't care about you.
This evidence has to be gathered & witnesses the police haven't found,traced...time lines scrutinised..points of law looked at...contradictions found because if your defence 'team???' Start questioning aggressively the complainent tears will start to flow & this will upset the judge & gain great empathy & sympathy from the Jury.
If the accused person cries, then this is 'just showing remorse!!!'
So to ballance these scales of aherm..justice back..you need to have this evidence & when the complainent, who has lied & you are about to bring one of several witnesses your Investigator has found into the court room, and this complainent starts to cry and sob uncontrollably, you are in a position to ask that the Prosecution barrister offers them a handkerchief..Jury like this..no aggressive questioning etc and you're on the road to getting justice.

Be very very careful and from a former police officer, who left to do an honest job and now has contempt for them, DO NOT EVER TRUST THE POLICE.

http://www.iwaswronglyaccused.co.uk

This is who my friend has used over Christmas after being arrested after an malicious allegation at a Christmas party. He has nothing but praise for them. This is the sort of thing you need to look at as a solicitor will not do this and your freedom could be on the line.

Jake

[Franticwithworry]

Jake, you are being very unfair to many excellent legal aid solicitors who get excellent results for their clients.

Also I notice that you promote the website of the company currently helping your friend in every post. Do you have an interest in this firm? Presumably if they are still helping there are no results yet on which to make a considered judgement?

I looked at the site and feel it leaves a lot to be desired. There are many who are taken advantage of while vulnerable and frightened. I hope your friend isn't one of them.

[Jakwatts]

Ok I ignored the first reply when I tried to be helpful but I do not like what you are insinuating here. I am looking at posts on a small phone screen and didnt mean to quote the whole prior post. I am trying to give helpful advice. I feel that this is a direct attack on me now by yourself.
I am fully aware how vulnerable people are as a close relative was put through the awful turmoil.
I have no interest in the company I have placed I have just seen that a lot of people on here seem to have been swallowed up by the unfair system & I was merely trying to help.
I myself now have a hotdog business which is nothing do do with any company this link relates to.
I haven't checked out the website but I will now.
Please don't dismiss everything I'm saying as I may be a 'newbie ' but I have vast experience & can offer advice

Jake

[Jakwatts]

I'm not here to discuss busineses etc but I've just taken a look at the Web page link in detail.
I can't see a problem with it and I can assure you my friend has not been taken in my them.
You could have an all singing & all dancing page which could baffle people but many people have succumbed to that bs before haven't they ie Stephen Cooper Falsely Accused.
I won't put the link on anymore I was just posting for the first time and trying to help people. I apologise if it hasent come over like that.

Jake

[Casehardened]

Hello Jake.

There are no hard and fast rules about promoting relevant websites on the forum though as Franticwithworry mentioned there is understandable suspicion about any sites that do not have a proven track record and/or recommendations from forum members who have used their services.

One of our established and respected contributors does in fact include such a link in her signature but this is backed up by numerous members who have used that particular team.

I am sure that as an ex police officer you will understand this viewpoint. I note that you have been a member for some months and do hope you will continue to post now you have broken the ice as your experience from 'the other side of the fence' will be invaluable.

[Jakwatts]

Thankyou and yes I fully understand.
I shall continue to post on here & give my advice from experiences I have personally had & also being aware from being on the dark side that the Police will try everything to get that conviction & meet their targets.
Incidentally, I believe from speaking with my friend that the company I was mentioning (not for having an interest ut we've covered that&#128513 was formed by a former Police Sergeant but that's heresay!! All I know is my friend is very pleased with their level of attention so far & as there are many companies willing to prey on the vulnerable as per Cooper & Co I was merely advising that this one in my opinion (and my friend's) could be trusted.

Thankyou for welcoming me and if I appear brash sometimes it's just me so I'm sorry for that.
Years in the police damages you!!

All the best,

Jake

[Jakwatts]

Thankyou and yes I fully understand.
I shall continue to post on here & give my advice from experiences I have personally had & also being aware from having been on the dark side that the Police will try everything to get that conviction & meet their targets.
All I know is my friend is very pleased with their level of attention so far & they haven't asked for stupid amounts of money up front as some do it would appear & as there are many companies willing to prey on the vulnerable as per Cooper & Co I was merely advising that this one in my opinion (and my friend's) could be trusted.

Thankyou for welcoming me and if I appear brash sometimes it's just me so I'm sorry for that.
Years in the police damages you!!

All the best,

Jake

[Franticwithworry]

Casehardened - thank you for explaining things far better than I.

Jake - my apologies for upsetting you. I was under the impression from your reply that you had taken my post to mean that I was advocating that people attend interviews without legal representation when I was doing anything but. Again, my apologies.

[sqounk]

You must get someone to get the evidence and be like a dog with a bone as your legal aid solicitor certainly won't do it and the next thing they will be visiting you as you sit shell shocked in the court cells starting your lengthy prison sentence, passing a 'well I didn't expect that...I am surprised' as their mobile buzzes with a text asking what time they're meeting for a pint..to be frank..they don't care about you.

Hi Jake and thanks for your response.

Regarding gathering what evidence it is possible to gather, it is gathered! I think it is strong. I've also learnt, dissected and obsessed over the relevant legislation over many months and sought some independent legal advice to help me verify my findings.

I think there is an awful lot you can do yourself! Better to be pro-active I think than passive as you say.

[Jakwatts]

There is a lot you can do yourself and then hand it to a solicitor but you have to be careful about protective materials act etc & searching things on Facebook re complainent etc if they see you looking them up as you can get an app now that shows who'said been looking at your profile, this can be seen as indirect contact which can effect bail etc such as breaching it. Have to be very careful and thankyou for the welcome. 😊

Jake

[Casehardened]

I've always maintained that a solicitor and barrister will do their very best (after all it is their reputation for winning cases and therefore future income on the line) but it is necessary for the accused to present them with the material to do the job.

After all it is unrealistic to expect the legal team to go out on the streets and look for evidence, this is the job of the police and unfortunately they are usually working for the other side!

I suspect that many of the FA's who are now serving a sentence just sat back and said 'it's ok, I've got a good legal team working for me'

[sqounk]

There is a lot you can do yourself and then hand it to a solicitor but you have to be careful about protective materials act etc & searching things on Facebook re complainent etc if they see you looking them up as you can get an app now that shows who'said been looking at your profile, this can be seen as indirect contact which can effect bail etc such as breaching it. Have to be very careful and thankyou for the welcome. 

Jake

Hi Jake - thanks for that. Don't worry, there is no possible way that that could happen as this is done through 3rd parties & never via a log in. I will raise two issues;

1. If the webpage the complainant is posting to is in the public domain it cannot be seen as contact if there is no actual 'contact', surely - that cannot make sense. It's not an issue to me anyway, but it might be to others.
2. I don't think there is an app that tracks a persons visits to facebook profiles. Facebook have always said that they will never allow this - there are various 'random generation' bots which will claim that 'these people have visited your page' over the years, but these have never been genuine & if you look at the small print of the apps they will always say 'for entertainment purposes only' i.e. it's a sim...or at worst, a hack and sometimes just a ruse to mislead people for the coders amusement. Unless I am very wrong, and please anyone with greater knowledge that I have about this tech, feel free to contradict me!

Anyway - thanks for your points - it is important to point out the possible pitfalls of actions and to protect ourselves in these difficult circumstances we find ourselves.

[Jakwatts]

Thanks for that info as I have often wondered about the validity of it.

Jake

[Jakwatts]

Franticwithworry

No need to apologise I assure you.

Jake