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**Rights Fighter** · 22 October 2007, 11:25 AM

It seems to me that you are in Scotland. The laws there are different from the laws here in England.

You said:

"The best friend of the girl above beat up his ex-ggirfreind before me"

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that the complainant's best friend has beaten up your guy's ex girlfriend (girlfriend before the one who is now making the complaint)? Why would she do that if that is the case? What does this have to do with your guy? Do you mean that the friend of the complainant beat up your guy's ex girlfriend in front of you, which makes you a witness to that assault?

"She brought charges against this girl"

Who brought charges against who? The ex girlfriend who had been beaten up by the best friend of the complainant?

"he aforementioned girl of 15 said if they brought charges against her best friend then she would do anything she could to hurt her and my boyfrined."

Are you saying that the complainant has threatened to take revenge on the the person (ex girlfriend) if she brings charges of assault? Why should that affect your guy? The beating was nothing to do with him was it, or was it about him? Was this beating recent or a couple of years ago?

"She embellished a little saying that although she continued to have sex with him that she told him she was 15, that she was a virgin (definitely not true) and he raped her anally."

Unless the complainant has had anal sex before then any medical examination should show this has not occurred.

"He got the best lawyer he could in his area, but he didn't tell him anything about the case saying it wasn't serious."

Are you saying that the lawyer didn't tell him anything about the case and that the case wasn't serious or are you saying that your guy did not tell the lawyer anything about the case and that your guy said it wasn't serious?

"My boyfriend has three witness statements that confirm that this is a vendetta attempt and the girl in question has said to many people she didn't know it would go this far."

These will be helpful at trial.

"He ahs since tried to change his lawyer as the new lawyer said if he had got his witness statements to the procurator fiscal this wouldn't have gone to a hearing and eventual trial."

Are you talking about the three witness statement mentioned above that this is all about a vendetta? The matter still might have gone to trial regardless, in England anyway.

I don't know the rulings on legal aid (now here called Public Funding). A defendant is entitled to Public Funding wherever his defence solicitor might be. It just restricts how many times the solicitor can attend the court hearings depending on travelling expenses etc. Some sols use agents from local practices.

Alcohol is a depressant and will eventually make him feel worse. Has been to see his doctor yet?

Good luck!

**kbruce11** · 22 October 2007, 05:33 PM

thank you

Sequence of events if this helps at all:

boy meets girl and they have sex (this happened on three occasions quite close together, now over two years ago)

About 9 months ago boy with girlfriend (girl b) go out on a night out

Girl b gets beaten up by girl c, (girl c being girl a's best friend.)

Boy is witness, not me.

Girl b brings charges of assualt against girl c

Girl a then proclaims infront of witnesses on serveral occasions that if she brought charges against girl c she would do anything to hurt girl b even if it meant doing this through boyfriend, at time.

Girl b and boy break up

I came on the scene 3 months after arrest in march for crime of rape.

I hope this helps without the aid of a diagram and naming names.

Essentially if the girl has had anal sex before or after the event (considering its now over two years) he may be stuffed??

I personally think the whole situation is twisted here, we are awaiting whether or not legal aid will pay for the new lawyer being 200 miles away from wherre the trial will be held.

What is the possible sentencing and chances of conviction? I've read from recent reports roughly only 5-6% of reported cases of rape end in a conviction, but i'm afraid if this percentage is less and less now it is being brought to trial.

What is the difference between Scotland and England, you are right we are in Scotland. I've tried searching scotcourts.gov.uk to have a look at cases recently in the area. Are there any other websites I should try, I have an athens password, which gives me access to information.

I have advised that he do some more exercise, go for a run when it gets too much for him.

Thanks again for your help.

**Unregistered** · 23 October 2007, 10:39 AM

Hi

In Scotland there must be co obaritive (sp) evidence to accuser's testimony. Evidence of distress can be classed as this although it is shaky ground unless there is medical evidence/eye witness/ injuries etc. It seems to me that as your boyfriend has admitted having sex with an underage girl then yes he has admitted to statutory rape. In 2006 there was in the region of 975 reported rapes (Check Scottish Executive websited for stats) around 88 went to court with around 38 convictions - so his chance is pretty much 50 - 50. It may be that the Solicitors try to plea bargain re admission of underage sex and drop the rape charge. In the event of a guilty on underage sex I think much will depend on the age of your boyfriend at the time and the proximity of his age to that of complainers. The very best of luck to you all

**Rights Fighter** · 24 October 2007, 01:06 PM

Thank you for your explanation. I can understand you are in a panic which is probably why your first description was rather confusing. In order to get help and assistance the person providing the advice has to know the essential elements before advising. Without a clear background it would be easy to give the wrong advice. No I don't need a diagram or names!

You said:

Girl a then proclaims infront of witnesses on serveral occasions that if she brought charges against girl c she would do anything to hurt girl b even if it meant doing this through boyfriend, at time.

You need to get hold of these witnesses quickly to ask whether they would be willing to testify to what you have said. They will then need to write some sort of statement and send it to your solicitor who should get it typed up into a helpful format for the barrister to use in X-examination.

Can I ask why you have instructed a solicitor who is 200 miles away from where the alleged assaults took place? The way public funding is these days and the the difficulties in getting funding you might find that your chosen solicitor (if funding is awarded to him) may not be able to attend court hearings (magistrates and Crown Court) as this would eat into his petrol and overnight expenses.

It would also cost you and your partner as he would sometimes need to make an appearance at some, if not all these hearings. I think that you would only get those expenses paid back if he is found not guilty otherwise you will probably lose it.

You will need to keep a running account of all your out of pocket expenses to present to the court when applying for refunds, if the verdict is not guilty.

I was involved in a trial a couple of years ago where the defendant live in Yorkshire and the trial was held in SE London. They used a London solicitor. Most of the work was done via email and telephone. He was found not guilty.

Hopefully in your case the matter will be dropped prior to trial then you won't have to suffer the hassle of travelling long distances and having to make do with agency solicitors.

Best of luck!

**kbruce11** · 24 October 2007, 07:37 PM

Thank you

Hi there,

The witnesses are willing to testify, make statements and appear in court if necessary.

I'm trying to gather as much information as I can to help calm my boyfriend down. To a normal person this sounds like a clear cut case but I know these things can get complicated.

He originally asked around for the best solicitor in his area near the court it will be held and he got his orginal solicitor in Inverness. After many attempts to try and get information and counselling for the situation his solicitor was found to be very brief and told him that he didn't have any information. He went to the hearing with him and he didn't even put a plea of 'guilty' or 'not guilty', which everyone found strange.

A friend had advised my boyfriend of a national helpline for these matters (I don't know the name of it) however he called it and they had advised that the current solicitor should have submitted the witness statements to the procurator fiscal before the hearing and they said if he had done this it might not be going to trial. Almost like being told that if only you had put on your lottery numbers that day you would have won!!! He's constantly gettin knocked at every occasion and we're now worried that the original solicitor has ruined his chances of 'not guilty'.

The helpline also recommened that the solicitor in Glasgow was the most competent and experienced in this matter. He appraoached him a couple of weeks ago and they knew possibly the legal aid (public funding) may not cover it....and yes word back two days ago that this is the case. They are appealing for this and my boyfriend is even willing to pay for the travelling himself....he's been advised this may run into £5000-£10000....he works offshore so he makes enough if he has to cover it.

The procurator fiscal have submitted their evidence to the original solicitor and because of changing at this point he is still none the wiser as to the full charges and evidence against him, which I find amazing...why isn't this information present at the hearing or even arrest/charges??

Can he request that all fees paid to lawyers are paid for if he is found not guilty??

Thank you for all your help...fingers crossed i'll be able to tell you at a later date that he is cleared.

Cheers,
Katie

**Rights Fighter** · 25 October 2007, 01:37 PM

Hi Katie

Believe me, these cases are never clear cut!

In England the plea is usually entered in a hear called "Pre Case Management" - it used to be called "Plea and Directions Hearings". This in the the Crown Court nearest to where the alleged offences took place.

I am not sure how far down the procedural line you man has gone down so I can't comment. At magistrates court at the first hearing he would in England be asked how he pleads.

Following that there might be another Mag hearing followed by various hearings at CC (Crown Court). Sometimes there are a couple of hearings before trial and in other cases there are more than that. PCMH is where, in England, he would enter his plea.

The group I currently belong to does not have a National Helpline. You could be referring to FASO.

You said the advice was:

"they had advised that the current solicitor should have submitted the witness statements to the procurator fiscal before the hearing and they said if he had done this it might not be going to trial".

This is not necessarily true if I understand what you were told correctly. I am thinking that you are referring to the witness statements mentioned before which suggest some sort of conspiracy. The advice given to you is not necessarily true. In fact submitting statements which are helpful to defence prior to the actual trial starting would have rather a detrimental effect on your case as that would cause the Crown (CPS) to have previous knowledge of what your defence is and that means they could work their case around it.

That advice does not seem accurate given that defence need to come up with evidence that will blow the Crown case out of the water, so to speak. You can't do that if you submit defence statements (apart from that made by the defendant) to the opposite side! I would suggest that you ask your solicitor these questions (if he is experienced in these matter, otherwise he may not know the answer and bluff it).

You said:

"The procurator fiscal have submitted their evidence to the original solicitor and because of changing at this point he is still none the wiser as to the full charges and evidence against him, which I find amazing...why isn't this information present at the hearing or even arrest/charges??"

He should immediately contact the original solicitor and request all paperwork pertaining the the matter to be sent immediately, "in the interests and fairness of justice". Has your new sol not informed the Prosecutor of the change of representation?

It is not at all unusual for the defence to not know the full extent of the allegations - I've known some suddenly pop up in the middle of trial. Sometimes these are added to the indictment and sometimes not, depending on the judge. I know that sounds really scary but you need to be aware of this.

I don't know how the rules work in Scotland but here in England all expenses should be paid by the court if a not guilty verdict is given.

**Saffron** · 25 October 2007, 01:45 PM

Hi katie

I know it is all frightening and confusing. RIghts Fighter gives really good advice, and she certainly knows her stuff, so please do take on board what she says.

I'm afriad i can't offer any further practical advice other than to look after yourself. I do understand the strain and ferar of living with a suicidal, depressed and terrified person: it is exhausting. i had various coping mechanisms (even stupid things like Spring cleaning) so if you would like to chat, please feel free to contact me. You can email or PM me from this site.

Good luck.

Saffron

**Rights Fighter** · 25 October 2007, 02:10 PM

Sorry I forgot about the "personal stuff" in my endeavours to give accurate advice!

Some people in your situation often start to take more time for themselves than they usually would, such as going for a walk in the country together, a day trip, pictures etc. It's amazing how helpful this "quality time" can be and it should have a beneficial effect on both of you. I don't know if you are "into" Relaxation CD's, sounds of the sea, etc. I know they've kept me sane in the past. Light some candles, listen to some peaceful music and drift off into a dreamlike state wherever your favourite place may be. It could be a lovely sandy beach, a forest, meadow, by a stream.

I know this sounds soft but once you've tried it, it should help. It did and sometimes still does, for me.

Announcement

Girlfriend of young man falsely accused of rape..need advice...he's almost suicidal!!

Girlfriend of young man falsely accused of rape..need advice...he's almost suicidal!!

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