HCSA Allegation - what do they look for on computer???

[hello88]

Hi,

Hope you all had an alright Christmas, been talking to OH more about his discussion with OIC when went in to re bail and he was saying that it looks like they wont have to take it to cps if nothing bad comes back from the computer forensic.... now what do they quite mean by bad? My OH already admitted in interview that he watch's porn but he never has searched or watched anything to do with children porn or specifically searched for young girls or even teenage girls (normally just searched for free porn lol), he has never looked at porn that shows women dressing up in school clothes or something and never ever have chatted to children online. The only thing he has done is watch adult porn, and wathced a few trailers of a few films that Christina Ricci is in (aparantly because he thinks she is a brilliant actress.. yeah the same reason i watch pirates of carribbean because Johnny Deep is a brilliant actor - as you can imagine were sleepy hollow fans lol )

Now, i know this for a fact because its something i allowed my OH to do because i was suffering from depression,and also i saw what he looked at because i reguralarly went through the history to delete it because my mum often borrowed my computer (that would of been embarrising)

Sorry for the outward question and in depth talk about myn and OH private life, but just wondering if anyone knows if the adult porn he's admitted to watching (admitted right at the beginning) is something that might go against him????

Thanks in advance

h xxxx

[AmandaF]

My oh had adult porn on his laptop- even had a dvd in the drive when it was seized (oops!)
I personally don't have a problem with it and have watched it with him tbh, however they MAY use the fact that he watches it as a blur on his character- that's what they tried to do in my oh's case but it didn't have much of an impact.

Let's face it - porn is no longer the domain of flasher macs and brown paper envelopes. How many serving officers, members of the public, young kids have free access to it these days.

[Rights Fighter]

The problem with adult porn sites, is that often they have under-age girls on there who do not look underage.

Also, apparently (I say apparently as I've never been on a porn site) the photos often have to be scrolled through so far down, that in fact it's likely a viewer would not see absolutely all of them. That doesn't mean that they aren't there. So some of those that are never physically viewed by the user, still would appear as being "viewed". If any of those are of younger women (as in under-age) then that could cause a problem.

This is where we sometimes read that a person has "admitted guilt" and accepted a caution (which is a form of conviction that requires an admittance of guilt) for viewing/accessing/being in possession of illegal images. Often they had absolutely no idea they were there.

I am always wary of those cautions as the police will persuade a person to accept one, because the case is so weak it probably wouldn't result in a conviction and a caution bumps up their "success" rates.

Never accept a caution if you genuinely did not know that the images were there.

[Jerome Goulding]

To accept a caution is the same as pleading guilty

If I was to have accepted any form of 'caution' from the Police, knowing that I was entirely innocent, then the 'Court of Public Judgement' would have determined I was pleading guilty and I would have been accepting a form of 'out of court settlement' from society.

I think it all depends on what damage has already been done to you, your family, your loved ones and your reputation. If you have not been 'outed' into the public domain, a caution could be rejected. It is all about how much you can stomach things. If you only really wish the pressure to be taken away (especially where constant continued bail is applied) it could be accepted, but I do agree with others that this is a mechanism for justifying the police's action of arresting you, in the first place and allows their actions to be condoned and them get away 'scott free' from a falsehood.

I feel that if they offer a 'caution', then they are very 'thin ice', with the weakest (or no) evidence to even support your arrest or their enquiries.

If they had offered me a 'caution' I would have insisted that we went to full trial, as they had 'buggered up' my life anyway!

If you are innocent then stand firm as long as you can. If you are released with 'No further action', start to insist that you all data about you is removed from the Police National Data Computer (as this is incriminating to any DBS check) and any local databases. Then make a direct complaint to the IPCC about the police actions (they are bound to have done something wrong during the course of the investigation). If enough people were to follow this course of action it would high light what a real muddle this whole issue is.

[Rights Fighter]

They won't remove details from DBS searches / PNC after a NFA.

In the same way that some people are wrongly found guilty, some are wrongly found NG, and NFA usually only means that there is insufficient evidence, and it's not a clearing of a person's name.

I think they should go beyond NFA on a case by case basis: those that have "insufficient evidence" remain on file, but those that have evidence that proves nothing happened should be considered to have the record expunged.

It won't happen of course. The police rarely follow up evidence that is helpful to the defence case.

[Lilyput]

They won't remove details from DBS searches / PNC after a NFA.

In the same way that some people are wrongly found guilty, some are wrongly found NG, and NFA usually only means that there is insufficient evidence, and it's not a clearing of a person's name.

I think they should go beyond NFA on a case by case basis: those that have "insufficient evidence" remain on file, but those that have evidence that proves nothing happened should be considered to have the record expunged.

It won't happen of course. The police rarely follow up evidence that is helpful to the defence case.

Agree extremely unfair they'll always be a question mark over people even because of ridiculous lies.

[Jerome Goulding]

They won't remove details from DBS searches / PNC after a NFA.

In the same way that some people are wrongly found guilty, some are wrongly found NG, and NFA usually only means that there is insufficient evidence, and it's not a clearing of a person's name.

I think they should go beyond NFA on a case by case basis: those that have "insufficient evidence" remain on file, but those that have evidence that proves nothing happened should be considered to have the record expunged.

It won't happen of course. The police rarely follow up evidence that is helpful to the defence case.

I must be fortunately for me the 'exceptional' exception. My entire record has been removed from the PNC and (here in Devon) from UNIFI, the local database under exceptional case procedures and from North Yorkshire Polices localised system, by two Chief Constables. Two letters from both police forces to my MP state the sponging of the records. Read - http://www.false-arrest.co.uk/index....ng-in-the-dark

It did not take involvement of any solicitors or barristers, that came later after two police enquiries placed doubt on their reasoning behind my arrest.

[Rights Fighter]

You are indeed fortunate - if that is the right word.

One of the lads I helped with a successful appeal against conviction back in 2008 resulted in the allegations, the conviction and the quashed conviction showing on his partner's ECRB check, as it was back then. She didn't even know him when the alleged offences were committed.

MP tried the Chief Constable to get it expunged but that was a no-go. We proved the mother of the girls (his ex partner with whom he had a son and wanted more input in his life - which was was the cause of the false allegations) had got her girls to lie.

[hello88]

I must be fortunately for me the 'exceptional' exception. My entire record has been removed from the PNC and (here in Devon) from UNIFI, the local database under exceptional case procedures and from North Yorkshire Polices localised system, by two Chief Constables. Two letters from both police forces to my MP state the sponging of the records. Read - http://www.false-arrest.co.uk/index....ng-in-the-dark

It did not take involvement of any solicitors or barristers, that came later after two police enquiries placed doubt on their reasoning behind my arrest.

ohh i'm in devon too, hopefully a bit of luck for us then??, but truthfully to me his CRB (dbs or whatever its called now) isn't a problem for us at the moment. Due to the allegation Social Services have made my husband move out of the family home an only allowed supervised contact, i don't want that to happen until my youngest is 18 (he's 1 at the moment) just because a girl looked young on porn. Admitaddly most of my OH porn turned up on youtube were as i said before there was nothing saying he searched for young girls or anything, but at least if they do come back trying something stupid like that at least am prepared. If they find no other 'evidence' (which seemingly is the case at the moment) then could they charge based on the porn my OH watch's, they claimed that my OH forced this child to watch a rape scene on a dvd, so all our 18's had been taken (we like our films, yes we have lots of 15 and 18's but got all the disneys and stuff, infact more films for chldren then us, which funnily enough i don't think they note down) but as i continued to say to OH, its not illegal to buy and 18 and social services have already 'questioned' our children and know that we have never shown them any sort of film (in fact we've stopped them watching a few U's because we think it might be to scary for them lol)

ahhh sorry, babbling on, just so much going round and round in my head, but thanks all, yet again for replying h xxx

[Jerome Goulding]

My website (embryo'ed from the arrest) became a cathartic exercise to trying to rationalise, what had happened to my life. More over how my life had gone from being a comfortable high earner, respectful of laws and high achiever to being so suppressed that I hold the police, the justice system and UK law in contempt. When I started to breakdown things from a very naïve position, it really showed how duped the public have become in to a level of seething hysteria. Much of which is used as a control mechanism, has no validity in any democracy and flies in the face of any natural justice. Fair play is only for the deluded. On a daily basis we see our media, politicians and the police speaking of the abuses of citizens in other countries, yet ignoring the abuses in the UK. Abuses include the ease of arrest of someone without evidence and are later determined to be from a false allegation. When these UK abuses are challenged (certainly from my experience) it is very lengthy, very costly (if someone is fortunate to have access to funding) and inconclusive - any wrongness is excused with 'Lessons will be learned' statements, yet anyone who has been around as long as I have know that we will see repeat after repeat of unprofessional behaviour, no cultural changes in professional standards and much dragging of feet when things go wrong.

My case was ripe for challenge. I was arrested purely on suspicion through profiling; right age, right sex, right professional (education), single and having a vague association with a lodger-house sitter who had been found to have indecent images on his computer; I did leave a few of my possessions in my attic of my own house (placed there because I rented another which could not accommodate the 20 years of possession collecting, 300miles away nearer to my work). When the reason behind my arrest was put under investigation, I was told by the IPCC that they would not investigate and it would be a senior officer from the police team who arrested me, who would 'investigate themselves'! It was only having the full custody record (accidently given to my solicitors by the police - confident at the time that they would find evidence to support my arrest and prosecution that I stopped the police arrogance to continue to investigate me.

The findings were quite damming, but complied with the 'powers of arrest' under PACE. It exposed how a frame work of law, never intentioned to be used the way it was on me, and it was morally abused. Some abuse heaped on me happened during custody and some would consider that I was subject to torture (breaching the United Nations Human Rights Convention 1948 [this is the foundation of the Human Right Act here in the UK] Article 3 about the treatment of detainees. I was deprived of drink and food during 14 hours of detention and my medical conditions were not attended to. Subsequently two officers were disciplined for their failures. In their statements to the inquiring team the officers claimed that they had offered me food and I had rejected it, in the custody record (which they were unaware I had a complete copy) their was absolutely no evidence at all of their claim. Therefore it was determined that in all probability they had not offered it, but it the report findings said it was not an intentional act. The tick sheet on the log had nothing scribbled on it, by the officers!

North Yorkshire Police had been instructed by Devon and Cornwall Constabulary to arrest me. North Yorkshire in my opinion were much the 'fall guys' . Given the task to support your colleagues 'down south', would you have not done what was asked and assumed they had good cause to call for your arrest (if you were in the police) ? The entry on the custody log about evidence to support the arrest were the words 'preserve evidence, ask for by DC police'. Devon and Cornwall Constabulary have never revealed any significant evidence (even after an enquiry on themselves being investigated by themselves) which lead them to believe that I was involved in criminality. The whole process of complaint has been stonewalled to the highest level. I believe that North Yorkshire Chief Constable, David Jones, felt really embarrassed about what had happened and they had been caught up in something quite unsavoury. It was he that after the enquiry instructed the removal of the whole arrest incident to be removed from the PNC. I then used this removal as a big stick against Devon and Cornwall Constabulary, who finally conceded in January 2015 (nearly 21/2years after the arrest) to remove all entries and also took measures to have me removed from the local database as well.

My unemployment of three years and the lack of character references has destroyed my professional career. The 'Court of Public Judgement' and the 'No smoke without fire' pedlars has left our broken society like a deliberately smashed glass - beyond repair.

[hello88]

My website (embryo'ed from the arrest) became a cathartic exercise to trying to rationalise, what had happened to my life. More over how my life had gone from being a comfortable high earner, respectful of laws and high achiever to being so suppressed that I hold the police, the justice system and UK law in contempt. When I started to breakdown things from a very naïve position, it really showed how duped the public have become in to a level of seething hysteria. Much of which is used as a control mechanism, has no validity in any democracy and flies in the face of any natural justice. Fair play is only for the deluded. On a daily basis we see our media, politicians and the police speaking of the abuses of citizens in other countries, yet ignoring the abuses in the UK. Abuses include the ease of arrest of someone without evidence and are later determined to be from a false allegation. When these UK abuses are challenged (certainly from my experience) it is very lengthy, very costly (if someone is fortunate to have access to funding) and inconclusive - any wrongness is excused with 'Lessons will be learned' statements, yet anyone who has been around as long as I have know that we will see repeat after repeat of unprofessional behaviour, no cultural changes in professional standards and much dragging of feet when things go wrong.

My case was ripe for challenge. I was arrested purely on suspicion through profiling; right age, right sex, right professional (education), single and having a vague association with a lodger-house sitter who had been found to have indecent images on his computer; I did leave a few of my possessions in my attic of my own house (placed there because I rented another which could not accommodate the 20 years of possession collecting, 300miles away nearer to my work). When the reason behind my arrest was put under investigation, I was told by the IPCC that they would not investigate and it would be a senior officer from the police team who arrested me, who would 'investigate themselves'! It was only having the full custody record (accidently given to my solicitors by the police - confident at the time that they would find evidence to support my arrest and prosecution that I stopped the police arrogance to continue to investigate me.

The findings were quite damming, but complied with the 'powers of arrest' under PACE. It exposed how a frame work of law, never intentioned to be used the way it was on me, and it was morally abused. Some abuse heaped on me happened during custody and some would consider that I was subject to torture (breaching the United Nations Human Rights Convention 1948 [this is the foundation of the Human Right Act here in the UK] Article 3 about the treatment of detainees. I was deprived of drink and food during 14 hours of detention and my medical conditions were not attended to. Subsequently two officers were disciplined for their failures. In their statements to the inquiring team the officers claimed that they had offered me food and I had rejected it, in the custody record (which they were unaware I had a complete copy) their was absolutely no evidence at all of their claim. Therefore it was determined that in all probability they had not offered it, but it the report findings said it was not an intentional act. The tick sheet on the log had nothing scribbled on it, by the officers!

North Yorkshire Police had been instructed by Devon and Cornwall Constabulary to arrest me. North Yorkshire in my opinion were much the 'fall guys' . Given the task to support your colleagues 'down south', would you have not done what was asked and assumed they had good cause to call for your arrest (if you were in the police) ? The entry on the custody log about evidence to support the arrest were the words 'preserve evidence, ask for by DC police'. Devon and Cornwall Constabulary have never revealed any significant evidence (even after an enquiry on themselves being investigated by themselves) which lead them to believe that I was involved in criminality. The whole process of complaint has been stonewalled to the highest level. I believe that North Yorkshire Chief Constable, David Jones, felt really embarrassed about what had happened and they had been caught up in something quite unsavoury. It was he that after the enquiry instructed the removal of the whole arrest incident to be removed from the PNC. I then used this removal as a big stick against Devon and Cornwall Constabulary, who finally conceded in January 2015 (nearly 21/2years after the arrest) to remove all entries and also took measures to have me removed from the local database as well.

My unemployment of three years and the lack of character references has destroyed my professional career. The 'Court of Public Judgement' and the 'No smoke without fire' pedlars has left our broken society like a deliberately smashed glass - beyond repair.

Ah well maybe i don't have much hope then The only downside (apart from taking friggin forever to check computers) with the DC Police is that they sent social worker and police protection officer to have my husband removed from the home without being told who made the allegation and i had to continually phone for a week before the interviewed him. Being removed from the home without having chance to defend himself, or explain his side (because he didn't know who) and leaving me not knowing what going on was awful.. well only downside so far...

[Jerome Goulding]

Ah well maybe i don't have much hope then The only downside (apart from taking friggin forever to check computers) with the DC Police is that they sent social worker and police protection officer to have my husband removed from the home without being told who made the allegation and i had to continually phone for a week before the interviewed him. Being removed from the home without having chance to defend himself, or explain his side (because he didn't know who) and leaving me not knowing what going on was awful.. well only downside so far...

I will try and give some support where I can, but your best route is to try and engage with a solicitor (or even your OH's solicitor, with his permission). The enforced removal of any person from a family home is one of the most distressing things to happen. The distress is compounded by uncertainty. The current back log of forensic investigation into computers is compromising lives and has lead to massive delays in justice. This is not helped by the number of 'suspected' (2/3 no evidence found) viewers of indecent images of children allegations overwhelming a finite resource. Try and hold out. If your OH is on bail (having been arrested) he should have been offered 'free of charge' a solicitor to support him. There will be a conflict in 'safe guarding' processes and the protection (and anonymity) of the 'complainant' will be an issue.

I was very clear about my innocence (although I did have occasional doubt and drifted to thoughts about being 'stitched up') as my cynicism developed about police actions. For me, when I have a problem, I write. This allows me to form an argument. It can be very cathartic and orders my thoughts. I will write to my MP, often a very ranting emotional letter, then I re-order it and take it apart; sentence by sentence. What this does is allows me to ask the questions, tidy my thoughts and proceed less emotionally.

Just try and hold out, my thoughts are with you.

Jez