New Member Looking For Help

[TBG1]

Good Evening. This is my first post, though I have been reading for many weeks.

I have been falsely accused and firstly I would like to say thanks to those that contribute to this site because it is both useful & comforting.

Ten weeks ago, I received a call from the Police inviting me to an interview regarding an allegation that had been made against me. I was rigid with fear, since the only "crime" I can ever remember comitting was stealing a quid out of my Mum's purse for some football stickers! Needless to say, that wasn't what it was about.

As a foster family, I had dozens of foster "brothers & sisters" growing up and now, years later I've often expressed my pride in the fact that my parents helped those who needed it despite having 3 children of their own. I could never have expected that one would accuse me of sexual offences against her 32 years after I had last seen her.

In short, the police told me that in a two-year period in the 1980s it is alleged that I engaged in what can only be described as disgusting sexual acts with this girl who was under the age of 10.

My life has been on hold since. Many things have shocked & surprised me about being in this situation, but none more so than the fact that I get very little (if any) comfort from the certain knowledge that it's completely fabricated. "You haven't done anything, so what are you worried about" is now my least favourite phrase!

To give some additional background, there are no other allegations, no other member of my family has been questioned (they would've all been in the house at the time of the alleged incidents), none of my computers/phones have been looked at, I haven't been arrested and (therefore) I'm not on bail.

I have been told (10 weeks in) that the police are still "awaiting Social Services files (or reports)" so this hasn't even gone to CPS yet.

I'm just looking for your advice or observations based upon what I've wrote.

One thing in particular is 'Doli Incapax' - the police repeatedly said in my interview that I was 13-14 at the time of the alleged incidents......the fact is that as I was born at the end of the year, I would actually have been 12-13 (and then 14 for only the last 4 weeks of the 2nd year).

Anyway, my questions on that matter are - Does the fact that I was 14 (for the last 4 weeks of the specified period) matter? More importantly, reading through the (admittedly heavy) legal material I can't work out whether using this defence infers that you actually DID do what you're accused of...you just "didn't know it was a crime". If this is the case, then it would not be useful in my defence.

Although you weren't aware of it, thanks again for your support over the last month or two.

[joe_3178]

If you were to be arrested, there would be a period of time which is often months before the case is put to the CPS.

I think it best to prepared for an arrest because from what I gather the police don't need much more than an allegation to make an arrest.

It might be my lack of knowledge about the police but I'm surprised you had an 'interview' without being arrested?

[soulbug]

Good Evening. This is my first post, though I have been reading for many weeks.

I have been falsely accused and firstly I would like to say thanks to those that contribute to this site because it is both useful & comforting.

Ten weeks ago, I received a call from the Police inviting me to an interview regarding an allegation that had been made against me. I was rigid with fear, since the only "crime" I can ever remember comitting was stealing a quid out of my Mum's purse for some football stickers! Needless to say, that wasn't what it was about.

As a foster family, I had dozens of foster "brothers & sisters" growing up and now, years later I've often expressed my pride in the fact that my parents helped those who needed it despite having 3 children of their own. I could never have expected that one would accuse me of sexual offences against her 32 years after I had last seen her.

In short, the police told me that in a two-year period in the 1980s it is alleged that I engaged in what can only be described as disgusting sexual acts with this girl who was under the age of 10.

My life has been on hold since. Many things have shocked & surprised me about being in this situation, but none more so than the fact that I get very little (if any) comfort from the certain knowledge that it's completely fabricated. "You haven't done anything, so what are you worried about" is now my least favourite phrase!

To give some additional background, there are no other allegations, no other member of my family has been questioned (they would've all been in the house at the time of the alleged incidents), none of my computers/phones have been looked at, I haven't been arrested and (therefore) I'm not on bail.

I have been told (10 weeks in) that the police are still "awaiting Social Services files (or reports)" so this hasn't even gone to CPS yet.

I'm just looking for your advice or observations based upon what I've wrote.

One thing in particular is 'Doli Incapax' - the police repeatedly said in my interview that I was 13-14 at the time of the alleged incidents......the fact is that as I was born at the end of the year, I would actually have been 12-13 (and then 14 for only the last 4 weeks of the 2nd year).

Anyway, my questions on that matter are - Does the fact that I was 14 (for the last 4 weeks of the specified period) matter? More importantly, reading through the (admittedly heavy) legal material I can't work out whether using this defence infers that you actually DID do what you're accused of...you just "didn't know it was a crime". If this is the case, then it would not be useful in my defence.

Although you weren't aware of it, thanks again for your support over the last month or two.

Hi Welcome to the forum , I had a similar experince to you , based on Doli Incapax , i was accused of when i was between the ages of 12-14 , back in the 1980's , I was arrested around 25 years after the alleged incidents are alleged to have happened , My Duty solicitor on the day told me to go "no comment" some of the questions I was asked , I later learned to understand where a way into breaking down Doli Incapax , a lot of the questions asked where followed by "you did know what you was doing was wrong did'nt you" as doli incapax , between the ages of 10-14 you are presumed incapable of guilt unless the prosecution can prove other wise , my case went through all the various stages of long and drawn out court procedures as I was charged with around 10 counts of sexual offences , but when it finally got to a real judge in the crown court and the real legal arguments could begin , the judge before it went to trail , brought a the whole sad matter to a end , the judge said , that it was impossible for a jury to be directed by him and for a jury who whom not all of them will of been around in the 1980's to understand the inner workings of a young boys mind to rebutt doli incapax , the judge therefore , considered the case "a abuse of process" a rare occurrence these days and also placed a permanent stay on the case , meaning the case could never be re-opened .

The question you ask , based on the dates falling a few weeks or so after you maybe been 14 are little more than estimated dates and will not be a issue in my opinion , as the majority of the dates are well inside of the under 14 rule.

Let me clearly state this , IF anyone or any legal advice says , doli incapax is not applicable / not worthy of using as part of your legal defence , then instantly remove them from your legal team and find new someone new , I called various solicitors during my time of need and some of them said it would not apply , they where completely wrong.

I have a copy of the judges ruling , I will happily send you a copy for your legal team to use , as it might be very helpful , as what the judge ruled for me , should based on the small part of the details i know of your case , should apply equally to you .

My barrister whom is queens council , which means they are also a Judge , told me based on the allegations been over 25 years ago , they would of gone "no comment " in the police interview , so if you went no comment , then do not fear it was the best way forwards.

[soulbug]

P.S , Take a look through all my past posts , you will get a understanding on time scale and how things proceeded in general , as I did post fairly frequently on the forum , many of the questions I asked at the start of my forum postings all the way to my case been thrown out of court , should help answer a lot of your questions .

feel free to ask me any questions , I will try my best to help.

Rights fighter should be along soon to and I am sure she will have many words of wisdom , she helped point me towards the best defence team , thankfully I could afford to pay for my own defence , but also I was able to claim back all my costs , sadly though if you pay for your defence instead of legal aid , things have changed and I believe now , no costs are repaid .

But make sure you have the right defence team , One that i hear mentioned a lot if legal aided is a chap whos first name i can remember but not his 2nd name , Jerry something.....he is ment to be brilliant and I can highly recommend Chris Saltrease , excellent safe pay of hands .

[soulbug]

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ght=#post48749

Take a look at the link above , take a look at the link to the pdf book , read chapter 14 it will help , bit confusing at first but worth reading through .

The guy that wrote it , is a expert on Doli Incapax.

Just out of interest , did you go "No Comment " on your interview ? do not worry if you did not etc. but I assume you denied all the allegations if you did'nt go no comment.

[TBG1]

Soulbug

Hi Welcome to the forum , I had a similar experince to you , based on Doli Incapax , i was accused of when i was between the ages of 12-14 , back in the 1980's , I was arrested around 25 years after the alleged incidents are alleged to have happened , My Duty solicitor on the day told me to go "no comment" some of the questions I was asked , I later learned to understand where a way into breaking down Doli Incapax , a lot of the questions asked where followed by "you did know what you was doing was wrong did'nt you" as doli incapax , between the ages of 10-14 you are presumed incapable of guilt unless the prosecution can prove other wise , my case went through all the various stages of long and drawn out court procedures as I was charged with around 10 counts of sexual offences , but when it finally got to a real judge in the crown court and the real legal arguments could begin , the judge before it went to trail , brought a the whole sad matter to a end , the judge said , that it was impossible for a jury to be directed by him and for a jury who whom not all of them will of been around in the 1980's to understand the inner workings of a young boys mind to rebutt doli incapax , the judge therefore , considered the case "a abuse of process" a rare occurrence these days and also placed a permanent stay on the case , meaning the case could never be re-opened .

The question you ask , based on the dates falling a few weeks or so after you maybe been 14 are little more than estimated dates and will not be a issue in my opinion , as the majority of the dates are well inside of the under 14 rule.

Let me clearly state this , IF anyone or any legal advice says , doli incapax is not applicable / not worthy of using as part of your legal defence , then instantly remove them from your legal team and find new someone new , I called various solicitors during my time of need and some of them said it would not apply , they where completely wrong.

I have a copy of the judges ruling , I will happily send you a copy for your legal team to use , as it might be very helpful , as what the judge ruled for me , should based on the small part of the details i know of your case , should apply equally to you .

My barrister whom is queens council , which means they are also a Judge , told me based on the allegations been over 25 years ago , they would of gone "no comment " in the police interview , so if you went no comment , then do not fear it was the best way forwards.

Hi Soulbug - Thank you for your interesting reply.

I did not "no comment" through my interview - I do remember being asked (only once) if I "knew about sexual matters and that that what is alleged was wrong" and my reply was "I don't know, but I imagine so.....If you're asking if my parents had given me 'the talk' then no, but I imagine that I would know".

From what you've said, that suggests that I've nullified DI? Although, one does wonder how much "stock" you can put in an answer by a middle-aged adult trying to remember what he "knew" as a 12-year-old child.....

To be honest, you will probably be able to identify with this, my whole interview consisted of countless "I don't knows" simply because I was being asked about events that I could not identify with and I honestly couldn't remember what were otherwise "innocuous" events such as "Who was sat at the dinner table at tea-time" (this was actually asked and the type of question that they continued to ask) ..... I was 12 years old - I honestly didn't take note of who sat where and when.

[soulbug]

Hi Soulbug - Thank you for your interesting reply.

I did not "no comment" through my interview - I do remember being asked (only once) if I "knew about sexual matters and that that what is alleged was wrong" and my reply was "I don't know, but I imagine so.....If you're asking if my parents had given me 'the talk' then no, but I imagine that I would know".

From what you've said, that suggests that I've nullified DI? Although, one does wonder how much "stock" you can put in an answer by a middle-aged adult trying to remember what he "knew" as a 12-year-old child.....

To be honest, you will probably be able to identify with this, my whole interview consisted of countless "I don't knows" simply because I was being asked about events that I could not identify with and I honestly couldn't remember what were otherwise "innocuous" events such as "Who was sat at the dinner table at tea-time" (this was actually asked and the type of question that they continued to ask) ..... I was 12 years old - I honestly didn't take note of who sat where and when.

Okay , well based on that answer and consider I only went through the process , but I am not legally trained and this is only my opinion , then based on your answer and depending on how many questions came before it , then it would seem like a reasonable answer to give , considering the pressure of been in a interview and and the fog of time (been so many years ago)

Based on the judges ruling in my case , he mentioned the amount of time that had passed and how could "I" go back so many years etc.

You are right in saying how much stock can be put in your answer , so much time has elapsed , plus sex education even in my day some 30 years ago now , was very limited , basically some medical type diagrams in a book of the human body and reproductive organs etc , egg , seman etc , but in later years things have changed , so your sexual education at school will of been very limited , from what I understand now , sex education includes lots of different things including morals , sexual abuse , same sex relationships .

I would not say your doli incapax has been rebutted in any way shape or form , your barrister / solicitor will state what you have stated here , which is nothing more than reasonable....personally though , any more interviews , go "no comment" .

You will read on here about how you should not go "no comment" but those are generally for much more recent allegations or are when it is based on a adult been accused of something.

You are alleged to of committed a crime when you was a child , many years ago at a time when doli incapax applied , it is was your right at that time as a child to be presumed incapable of crime , please make sure doli incapax is your first line of defence , because your 2nd line of defence is your word against the accusers word during a crown court trial of which you maybe found guilty of something you did not do and face around 10 years in prison .

This is a very serious allegation with a very serious prison sentence plus the added stigma of going on the sexual offenders register.

[soulbug]

P.S once you have I believe 10 posts or more on the forum , then the P.M private message function can open up , if you would like a copy of the judges ruling in my case , then please let me know on the forum and I will send it to you for you to read through and to pass onto your legal team if you are charged , as It maybe very helpful for them.

Do your best not to worry , you might not be charged and also at this early stage of the police investigation , there is little you can do , other than come to a understanding on where you stand legally , but please read the pdf I pointed you towards , that is full lots of informations that will help bring you to a understanding of Doli Incapax.

[soulbug]

Just another quick thought , the police asked you if you had , had "the talk" well that is very much open to interpretation , but regardlessly , who / whom can remember what was discussed in "the talk" .

How would your parents even remember the exact conversation.

Plus having the talk , BEEN told about things , does not mean your was capable of mentally digesting and understanding "the talk"

If this went to a 2nd interview , I would assume your solicitor (please make sure you get a suitable solicitor with lots of experience in this field) would suggest you make a written statement , that statement would basically say along the long the lines of based on the dates of the allegations and the fog of time , you are stating you have not committed any of the offences and that you are stating you are innocent of all allegations and you will not be answering any further questions , with a big FULL stop at the end.

[TBG1]

Soulbug

P.S once you have I believe 10 posts or more on the forum , then the P.M private message function can open up , if you would like a copy of the judges ruling in my case , then please let me know on the forum and I will send it to you for you to read through and to pass onto your legal team if you are charged , as It maybe very helpful for them.

Do your best not to worry , you might not be charged and also at this early stage of the police investigation , there is little you can do , other than come to a understanding on where you stand legally , but please read the pdf I pointed you towards , that is full lots of informations that will help bring you to a understanding of Doli Incapax.

Thanks again for your reply.

You point out in your other post that having no legal background, you can only give your opinion as you went through the process - that's ideal and I thank you for it. I will certainly PM you when I am able.

In the meantime, you're quite correct regarding the depth and availability of "sex education" back in the 80's - In fact, it's worth pointing out that I went to an all-boys school and so interactions with females were at that time of my life limited to family only and there was no SE "lessons" whatsoever.

I did read the PDF you refer to a few weeks ago and as you say it did make me think about my own situation. My only reservation about it though was that in the 'case-law' contained in chapter 14, it appears (to me at least) that the individual DID actually do what they were accused of....but they were acquitted because of DI. Which is where it becomes dis-similar to my situation.

[Rights Fighter]

Thanks so much soulbug for coming to the rescue. I can't add anything to that, at this stage.

[soulbug]

Thanks again for your reply.

You point out in your other post that having no legal background, you can only give your opinion as you went through the process - that's ideal and I thank you for it. I will certainly PM you when I am able.

In the meantime, you're quite correct regarding the depth and availability of "sex education" back in the 80's - In fact, it's worth pointing out that I went to an all-boys school and so interactions with females were at that time of my life limited to family only and there was no SE "lessons" whatsoever.

I did read the PDF you refer to a few weeks ago and as you say it did make me think about my own situation. My only reservation about it though was that in the 'case-law' contained in chapter 14, it appears (to me at least) that the individual DID actually do what they were accused of....but they were acquitted because of DI. Which is where it becomes dis-similar to my situation.

I understand where you are coming from , but legally you are splitting hairs , I did a lot of that , but if it comes to going to court , Doli Incapax regardlessly of been innocent or not , it is still you right as a child of that time to expect the CPS to rebutt that defence your case as a double line of defence , Doli incapax does not make you look guilty it is a legal right of yours , please ensure you use it.

I was innocent of all the charges brought before me , none of it seemed fair , I feared and worried for around 18 months of going to trial and to be judged by a random selection of peers against a word on word allegation , embrace your rights as a child , it is a hurdle for the CPS , if they cannot jump it , then the case should not go to trial .

Doli Incapax was a alien concept to me , even though I lived through the age when it was applicable.

Doli incapax is not a get out clause , but is in fact purely in the interest of innocence and the rights of children .

[soulbug]

Thanks so much soulbug for coming to the rescue. I can't add anything to that, at this stage.

Hi RF , that is high praise !

I hope you are keeping well , how did the case you mentioned go with regards to the appeal with "doli incapx" if it has indeed yet been back to court ?

[soulbug]

"knew about sexual matters and that that what is alleged was wrong" and my reply was "I don't know, but I imagine so.....If you're asking if my parents had given me 'the talk' then no, but I imagine that I would know".

I would say you are giving a adult answer to a question that any other adult of a similar age to you would assume based on their adult knowledge today, , but "imagine" as in guessing so , your answer is vague and assuming , which appears to be a non fact based answer, wishy washy comes to mind.

As a sound bite in a court case , it might twang a chord with the jury but any good defence barrister would soon smash it down with a mighty thud.

[TBG1]

Soulbug

I understand where you are coming from , but legally you are splitting hairs , I did a lot of that , but if it comes to going to court , Doli Incapax regardlessly of been innocent or not , it is still you right as a child of that time to expect the CPS to rebutt that defence your case as a double line of defence , Doli incapax does not make you look guilty it is a legal right of yours , please ensure you use it.

I was innocent of all the charges brought before me , none of it seemed fair , I feared and worried for around 18 months of going to trial and to be judged by a random selection of peers against a word on word allegation , embrace your rights as a child , it is a hurdle for the CPS , if they cannot jump it , then the case should not go to trial .

Doli Incapax was a alien concept to me , even though I lived through the age when it was applicable.

Doli incapax is not a get out clause , but is in fact purely in the interest of innocence and the rights of children .

I absolutely agree with you - it's taken a lot to get my head around, but I'm (slowly) coming round to the conclusion that, if charged, I must do anything and everything to make sure that this ends "positively" for me because it will come as no comfort to me if I'm sitting in a jail cell and I haven't utilised all tools available to me to avoid being there simply because I might be uncomfortable with the notion. You might well remember the time yourself when you (crazily) thought that people will take one look at you, your record (or lack thereof), your current and past situation and say "Nope, there's no way he did any of this.....Next". I'm only just coming out of that make-believe world and re-joining reality - so I'm only just recognising the likelihood that I may well have to defend myself.

I note that you used Chris Saltrese (and whom has countless recommendations on here). I realise that you can't say what their costs to me will be but, if you're prepared to say so, what were the costs of your defence?