sex, lies and video

[endurance]

My son was accused of rape and had a video to prove it was not, but he did get charged with having an image of a child under 18.

He was 20 at the time and had met the girl through a friend who had introduced them with the initial intention of having a threesome. However the friend backed out and my son went on to have sex with her.

Almost a month later the police turned up as she had accused him of raping her. Stupidly he agreed to 'go down the station for a little chat' as he was unaware of anything untoward. On being accused of rape he denied it and showed them the video on his phone, plus previous messages arranging the threesome, and thought that would be the end of it. The girl turned out to be under 16.

He is currently in prison having been sentenced to 3 years. The girl had lied about the rape but the police, cps and judge watched the video and decided that she was unaware that she was being recorded. He pleaded guilty to having the recording he used as his defence.

I feel that he is actually serving a lesser sentence than he would be serving for rape so realise things could be a lot worse.

My current concern is that he has been in counselling since young for various traumatic incidents and was making progress when childrens mh services provision ended when he was 17. Since the accusation his mental health deteriorated and his suicide attempts, self-harming and self-medication escalated. At the moment he is doing OK in prison although it took him about a year to settle down into prison life and he is on a wing with other vulnerable prisoners and accesses mind counselling sessions.

I am concerned over discussions with his probation officer who has made comments like '..when he comes in saying he feels suicidal I just want to call his bluff...' and 'there's nothing wrong with him - he just has ptsd, borderline personality disorder and adjustment disorder' (?). She wants him to go to a bail hostel and take a SO course - I am really not sure these are appropriate but who is best to talk to about my concerns?

[Casehardened]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

I've moved your post to this section as the 'Contact Us' section is really for advice regarding the functionality of the forum.

[endurance]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

I've moved your post to this section as the 'Contact Us' section is really for advice regarding the functionality of the forum.

Thank you - I realised I had done something wrong but couldn't work out how to move it.

[Casehardened]

Hi again,

Sorry that you have had no responses to your query but happily most of our members come out the right side of a false accusation in that they are NFA'd or found NG, so have no experience of the prison discharge procedure.

In your son's case it is most unfortunate that his legitimate defence against the false accusation of rape was used to convict him!

It seems to me that there are two avenues you could take; appealing the original conviction and/or sentence (which seems a little harsh for possession) or get the bail conditions varied.

With regard to an appeal, if Rights Fighter sees this post she will be the best person to advise, but did his barrister at the time of conviction give any advice on a possible appeal? If not it would be worth an initial consultation with another firm; however there do need to be specific grounds for an appeal such as fresh evidence (seems unlikely in this instance) or an unfair summing up by the judge (this is a possibility)

Our members have recommended lawyers specialising in SO cases in this thread: http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ist-solicitors

As he was sentenced to a fixed term I guess he will soon be released on licence (after serving 18 months?) and this is why probation are getting involved. I presume you are wanting him back home but if the girl lives in the locality this is why probation want him to live in a hostel which undoubtedly will be some distance away.

This is actually for his protection to avoid any further accusations or retribution from her or her friends during his licence period; however if you have relatives who live sufficiently far away to negate any contact probation may well consider varying the conditions to allow him to live with them for the licence period?

Did he have to sign the SOR? If not this may be the reason for wanting him to go on a course.

[Rights Fighter]

I can't read the OP as it's one block of text so can't help at the moment. Sorry

[Casehardened]

I can't read the OP as it's one block of text so can't help at the moment. Sorry

sorted~~~~~~~~~ x

[Rights Fighter]

Thanks CH

He is currently in prison having been sentenced to 3 years. The girl had lied about the rape but the police, cps and judge watched the video and decided that she was unaware that she was being recorded. He pleaded guilty to having the recording he used as his defence.

Did the jury come to the conclusion that the complainant lied about the rape? ie what was the verdict on that?

Being unaware that the video was being made should not have hampered the defence, that she consented, if the video showed that. Making the video without her knowledge obviously would not have gone down well with the jury and I thin- is a criminal offence - however it could still have assisted his defence in that it showed (if it did) her consenting.

How / why did your son believe that the complainant was older? I ask, as "mens rea" comes into play here.

"Actus Rea" = was the act committed? If it is admitted that it was, but the jury found there was consent, not rape, and he fully believed the complainant to be over the age of 16 years (mens rea), the judge would (or should) have directed the jury that they must be "sure" that he knew that.

This is where "Mens Rea" comes in: After deciding whether the act was committed, and whether it was rape or there was consent, the jury must be sure that the defendant knew what he was doing, in that (in this case sexual intercourse) was against her will and against the law (under age).

The judge would have to direct accordingly as to "Mens Rea".

Do you know if the judge did so direct?

And what does the defence team say about an application to attempt to appeal the conviction?

[endurance]

Thank you for getting back to me

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I am finding the site a little confusing so please bear with me. I have a number of health problems with fatigue, confusion and poor concentration being among the symptoms

He has to sign the SOR for 10 years. The young lady in question lives a few streets away so far as I know. I have thought about moving but this will take some time and I don't know if this would make the situation worse.

He did not know she was under 16. I saw her and she looked about the same age as my son. He had believed she was aware of the videoing at the time as it had been discussed previously, as had the initially intended threesome with the person who had introduced them to each other, and she had also sent some pretty explicit photos of herself. The police had re-interviewed the FA after watching the video. I don't know if she retracted the accusation but must have denied knowledge of the video. Would the allegation have been mentioned in court if it had been dropped?

The trial did not have a jury, there was just myself, the defence, the prosecution, a judge and a reporter.

The solicitor seems to think he has done well to get the sentence he did and strongly rejects the idea of an appeal. However I just feel I can't trust the solicitor for a number of reasons.
The solicitor had recommended I send a letter of support to the judge (which I did) but it was never mentioned in court so maybe he was just trying to keep me off his back as I was pestering him about progress, etc. There were a couple of things that were not quite correct. Also in the last court appearance when he was sentenced the barrister refused to talk to me before and after the court appearance saying my son had ordered him not to talk to me. When I rang the solicitor for clarification he said it had been a mistake by the barrister. My sons request for all the paperwork has gone unfulfilled with only the paperwork for a later conviction forwarded to me (at my sons written request). The solicitor was via legal aid as my son is over 18 but was on low income.

He did not get detained for the rape allegation but for a further unrelated offence a couple of months later when his mental health had deteriorated so much that he was detained for his own safety, albeit in a prison as there was no other appropriate place available. Thats what the judge said in court so I'm expecting that to be the truth. I think both of us were a bit relieved at the time as life was pretty intolerable as it was. I know that may sound strange but having been trying to access adult mental health services is a nightmare as they are only interested when there is a crisis (by which time more often than not damage has been done in some way), but won't deal with people who are under under influence of drugs/drink (which of course is what people turn to when life gets unbearable and they need to blot it out).

He has been in trouble with the police before on more minor offences and is not the most stable person despite both our efforts to deal with his fluctuating moods. Some have been very helpful and understanding and have expressed concern at the number of lads his age who end up in prison cells when they should really be under medical care. He has even been given a cell for the night on several occasions on breach of the peace (I think) which was dropped the next morning and probably isn't even on record - there was no actual breach of the peace by himself but was the result of neighbours behaviour which we were not involved in but was causing him (and the police) distress.

At the time of his conviction my health was poor apart from being totally bewildered by it all and not having a clue where to access decent honest help and advice. I wish I had found this forum a long time ago - I have spent hours and hours looking all over for appropriate help and I thought I was a good researcher - maybe things just turn up when the time is right?

On a further note which has just been brought back to my attention while going through the papers I have. In the later offence when he was detained he police took his phone which I had bought for him 2 weeks previous. They later came out to see me and asked me about it as there were really bad explicit pics in the memory. I believed it had been wiped clean but the police asked how long I had the phone and took details of where I had bought it. They also interviewed my son and said if they came back it would be to charge him. They said pretty much the same to me. The dates on the images are from 2011. That was about 15 months ago and we have heard nothing since. The solicitor advises me to just leave it. My son is terrified he will get 'gate arrested'.

This just gets more and more complex doesn't it?

I just feel it is imperative that he gets the right help (as advised by the judge under advice from the psychatrist who assessed him) on leaving prison, but am well aware that is increasingly difficult these days.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to me Rightsfighter - I hope the format is OK for you to read. If not let me know how I can improve it for you.
Ohh dear, having read this back maybe I should have replied to rightsfighter rather than case-hardened?

[Rights Fighter]

This sounds like a Magistrates hearing, so it did not merit going to Crown Court.

police took his phone which I had bought for him 2 weeks previous. They later came out to see me and asked me about it as there were really bad explicit pics in the memory.

Would these be child abuse images? You say "really bad explicit" and as the police are interested in them, I'm thinking maybe they are. Was the phone 2nd hand when you bought it?


When a solicitor/barrister strongly suggests that no appeal should be sought they often have something to hide. Whereabouts in the UK are you? Just say the county.

I have a problem with my eyes due to looking at a computer monitor most of the day so large chunks of text just don't make sense to me.

[endurance]

This sounds like a Magistrates hearing, so it did not merit going to Crown Court.



Would these be child abuse images? You say "really bad explicit" and as the police are interested in them, I'm thinking maybe they are. Was the phone 2nd hand when you bought it?


When a solicitor/barrister strongly suggests that no appeal should be sought they often have something to hide. Whereabouts in the UK are you? Just say the county.

I have a problem with my eyes due to looking at a computer monitor most of the day so large chunks of text just don't make sense to me.

Thank you rightsfighter - will try to keep it in little chunks.

The solicitor said they are child porn but the police did not say what they were.

The phone was second-hand and I gave the police details of the shop where I bought 2 weeks previously.

I am in tyne & wear.

[Rights Fighter]

Hopefully you have the receipt for the phone with the date on it. In 2009 I bought what was supposed to be a brand new notebook (mini-laptop) from Currys in Salisbury.

When I started it up I didn't get the usual registering it etc, it opened up immediately. I went to check my Hotmail account and it was already signed into another person's - turned out he worked in the shop I bought it from.

When I went onto a browser it immediately opened up to a porn site. I took it straight back and the guy who sold it to me bundled me out of the shop. I contacted head office and eventually got a complete refund. Buying from new doesn't always mean that it's not been tampered with.

Hopefully the police forensic expert can see when the images were downloaded onto the phone.

I don't many many decent solicitors or barristers up in your area. However and appeal can be undertaken by sols / barristers away from you.

Did you son admit to anything apart from having consensual sex with a girl he believed to be over the age of 16 years?

I appreciate you have to be careful what you post up here. However, you need to clarify exactly what he admitted to first off, before approaching fresh representation.

[endurance]

Hopefully you have the receipt for the phone with the date on it. In 2009 I bought what was supposed to be a brand new notebook (mini-laptop) from Currys in Salisbury.

When I started it up I didn't get the usual registering it etc, it opened up immediately. I went to check my Hotmail account and it was already signed into another person's - turned out he worked in the shop I bought it from.

When I went onto a browser it immediately opened up to a porn site. I took it straight back and the guy who sold it to me bundled me out of the shop. I contacted head office and eventually got a complete refund. Buying from new doesn't always mean that it's not been tampered with.

Hopefully the police forensic expert can see when the images were downloaded onto the phone.

I don't many many decent solicitors or barristers up in your area. However and appeal can be undertaken by sols / barristers away from you.

Did you son admit to anything apart from having consensual sex with a girl he believed to be over the age of 16 years?

I appreciate you have to be careful what you post up here. However, you need to clarify exactly what he admitted to first off, before approaching fresh representation.

I am still looking for the receipt - it was bought from a 2ndhand mobile shop - but I gave the the police the date it was bought and also details of his phone contract - I thought they would be able to check the phone records.

My son only admitted having the video which he had given up as evidence in his defence at the time he was interviewed about the accusation.

[Casehardened]

The trial did not have a jury, there was just myself, the defence, the prosecution, a judge and a reporter.

Was this trial at crown court; i.e. had he already made an appearance at a magistrates court at which he was committed to crown court? (this seems likely as the maximum sentence magistrates can impose is 12 months)

I understand that it is now possible for trials to take place without a jury but have never heard of it before in relation to sexual offences.....presumably the prosecution made the application for a no-jury trial but I wonder what the reasoning was?

[endurance]

Was this trial at crown court; i.e. had he already made an appearance at a magistrates court at which he was committed to crown court? (this seems likely as the maximum sentence magistrates can impose is 12 months)

I understand that it is now possible for trials to take place without a jury but have never heard of it before in relation to sexual offences.....presumably the prosecution made the application for a no-jury trial but I wonder what the reasoning was?

Thank you case-hardened. Yes he was committed to another court at a previous hearing. I have no idea why there was no jury. Is there any way i could find out? Could I/my son obtain details of the proceedings from the cps?

[Casehardened]

He pleaded guilty to having the recording he used as his defence.

Thank you case-hardened. Yes he was committed to another court at a previous hearing. I have no idea why there was no jury. Is there any way i could find out? Could I/my son obtain details of the proceedings from the cps?

My sincere apologies, I did read your OP but somehow missed the sentence where he pleaded guilty to possession of the video.

The guilty plea meant of course that there was no need for a jury to be present to decide on innocence or guilt and sadly it also means that leave to appeal the conviction is unlikely to be granted.

Sorry for raising your hopes regarding overturning the conviction