Anyone here been through perjury process (of a false rape accuser) ?

[anonsteve]

Finally a High Court judge kicked my case to the police for a perjury/perversion investigation. I want to know what to expect. After six years I am so jaded that I now EXPECT it to be screwed up. But if CPS take it forward, will I be "tried" all over again as a witness? I've lost my job, my profession (dr of psychology), my social life, my mental health, etc. I don't think I can take it all over again if it ends with the cow getting away with it. Any thoughts ?

[jittery]

Hi

Finally a High Court judge kicked my case to the police for a perjury/perversion investigation. I want to know what to expect. After six years I am so jaded that I now EXPECT it to be screwed up. But if CPS take it forward, will I be "tried" all over again as a witness? I've lost my job, my profession (dr of psychology), my social life, my mental health, etc. I don't think I can take it all over again if it ends with the cow getting away with it. Any thoughts ?

Hi Anonsteve,
I can't help I'm afraid, but it may be something I will have to go through at some point. Personally I would welcome the chance. The way I see it is that there will have to be some accountability attached to false reporting of rape to discourage these people from doing such a thing in the first place. It can only be a good thing. It will help to prevent others from going through what we have had to and will remove unneccessary cost and the burden on already overstretched social and judiciary services.
Be strong Dr ( for I still regard you as such from one academic to another ) for the good of society this is something we MUST do. And now my friend it's only a thought, but have you considered counselling as a career? With your insight into human nature you could be a latter day Albert Ellis! Be positive, be strong, will you forgive yourself if you turn your back on this chance to help others and society. I won't.
All the best and stay in touch.
Jittery

[anonsteve]

Thanks for replying

well I have done some counselling, and then I set up a not for profit employing about 40 of 'em. Its not the right time, but maybe. In a way, I am best suited as an expert witness on false accusations - I can discuss it academically - it fits right into my research - and personally. I understand that it is every false acusee's dream to get a prosecution, and it only got there because I refused to give up (for 6 years). But it has messed me up quite a bit, and its not the right time to return to work. I think its hard to appreciate how the claim of abuse effects someone who's whole profession is to deal with vulnerable people.

But I hope that you do get the same hard situation as I am in - because the resolution is hard, believe me! However, non-resolution is, in the end, all the harder. At least, that's how I feel about it. I am not convinced however that my way is the healthiest way. At least not for many people.

[jittery]

thanks

well I have done some counselling, and then I set up a not for profit employing about 40 of 'em. Its not the right time, but maybe. In a way, I am best suited as an expert witness on false accusations - I can discuss it academically - it fits right into my research - and personally. I understand that it is every false acusee's dream to get a prosecution, and it only got there because I refused to give up (for 6 years). But it has messed me up quite a bit, and its not the right time to return to work. I think its hard to appreciate how the claim of abuse effects someone who's whole profession is to deal with vulnerable people.

But I hope that you do get the same hard situation as I am in - because the resolution is hard, believe me! However, non-resolution is, in the end, all the harder. At least, that's how I feel about it. I am not convinced however that my way is the healthiest way. At least not for many people.

Well either way I take my hat off to you. This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be done to provide a deterrent for false accusations being made. Who knows a few such cases may make the process easier to initiate. I think you are right: across the board I don't think people realise how these accusations affect people. In my 50s I'll find it hard to make a new start, which is effectively what I'll have to do.
I'm sure the whole process will not do me any favours if I get the proof required, but I feel it's something that needs to be done not just for me, but for everyone concerned.
Well what can I say. In my book you're doing a great thing. Keep me posted, I'd like to hear how this turns out.
Regards
Jittery

[anonsteve]

Thanks

Thanks Jittery, I am also in my 50s. I've lost my career as a doctor of psychology, my firm which employed around 40 others, and my family. In a way, this is why I can keep in fighting. I've got f-all else to "just carry on" with!

But yes, the police now promise that this will go to CPS. I just expect it to fall over there. It ends up safer to expect the worst, and be pleased if the worst does not happen.

I'm usually very optimistic, but I realise just how tough a wall this is that I am banging my head against! For context, I was accused of multiple rapes, multiple murders, terrorist offences, child sexual abuse, back street abortion, and drug dealing. Oh and loads of other things too numerous to mention. in a way I am blessed with a surfeit of false accusation. Were she had been a bit less extreme, it might actually have been harder! It is impossible to prove I have not committed unspecified murders (etc). With no victim name, location, reason, or even decade they occurred, how do you prove the negative? But fortunately it is the rape claim that is actually provable. She states the time, and the time is impossible according to her own written and time-stamped record.

I can't pretend that my situation represents many of us. But if it serves as a warning to others, not to lie to get what you want, then the choice not to top myself a year ago as planned, will have proven to have some value.

[jittery]

Excellent

Thanks Jittery, I am also in my 50s. I've lost my career as a doctor of psychology, my firm which employed around 40 others, and my family. In a way, this is why I can keep in fighting. I've got f-all else to "just carry on" with!

But yes, the police now promise that this will go to CPS. I just expect it to fall over there. It ends up safer to expect the worst, and be pleased if the worst does not happen.

I'm usually very optimistic, but I realise just how tough a wall this is that I am banging my head against! For context, I was accused of multiple rapes, multiple murders, terrorist offences, child sexual abuse, back street abortion, and drug dealing. Oh and loads of other things too numerous to mention. in a way I am blessed with a surfeit of false accusation. Were she had been a bit less extreme, it might actually have been harder! It is impossible to prove I have not committed unspecified murders (etc). With no victim name, location, reason, or even decade they occurred, how do you prove the negative? But fortunately it is the rape claim that is actually provable. She states the time, and the time is impossible according to her own written and time-stamped record.

I can't pretend that my situation represents many of us. But if it serves as a warning to others, not to lie to get what you want, then the choice not to top myself a year ago as planned, will have proven to have some value.

Good man!
That's the spirit! I'm sure with your backbone, you'll find another niche in life! I intend to. I'm trying to start my own company up, I think it'll probably be my only option. Must get off now, but stay strong, I'll follow your case with interest.
Regards
J

[anonsteve]

Thanks Jittery, I have started a new thread on how we get the most traction possible from the successful prosecution I will be a witness for. Obviously, I have huge doubts over whether that thread will ever have any value, but it seems worth thinking about it now, not suddenly thinking about it if and when the prosecution succeeds. If we want to make a difference, we might need to think about prior to the trial, and I'm not going to want to think about it during the trial!

Just for the record, even though it shouldn't need saying, that is to make a difference for the innocent, and to be a warning to the potential false-accuser. Obviously what I have to say never speaks to, or for, the guilty. Somehow I feel the need to add that caveat - even though it should be blindingly obvious.

[jittery]

Hi

Thanks Jittery, I have started a new thread on how we get the most traction possible from the successful prosecution I will be a witness for. Obviously, I have huge doubts over whether that thread will ever have any value, but it seems worth thinking about it now, not suddenly thinking about it if and when the prosecution succeeds. If we want to make a difference, we might need to think about prior to the trial, and I'm not going to want to think about it during the trial!

Just for the record, even though it shouldn't need saying, that is to make a difference for the innocent, and to be a warning to the potential false-accuser. Obviously what I have to say never speaks to, or for, the guilty. Somehow I feel the need to add that caveat - even though it should be blindingly obvious.

I think it's implicit that we are talking about false accusers and the falsely accused- be something very wrong if we weren't. It needs doing, don't know if you saw the other day on BBC news, some woman claiming false accusations of rape account for a "miniscule amount" of cases (of course no one was there to gainsay this) my readings suggest 40% of rape claims are false.
This lopsided representation of the facts is a deliberate attempt to distort the public's view and reinforce the case for more convictions, whether needed or not. This needs to be fought.

[anonsteve]

Sure, I felt the urge to say it, that's all.

On levels of non-guilt, I have met definite offenders. I have tried to help those who I have every reason to believe are definite victims. Now, if I were to try to determine percentages, coming from some experience in social research, I have to say that I can identify no reliable way of measuring this - even if definitions were not shifting and difficult (eg, a rape in marriage in the 80s was not "rape". in the statistics, "statutory" rape, etc). I absolutely shy away from trying to find a percentage, you may well be right at 40%, you may well be wrong. All I can say is that the assumptions that all non convictions = gotawaywithiters, is ********. Similarly arguing all innocence-claimers are innocent must also be ********. So the figure is somewhere between the two, obviously not near either extreme (allowing your 40% to be possible, of course). Other than that, how the hell will we ever know? But what I do know is that one convicted innocent person is an affront to civilisation. Guilty people going free is also an anathema, but the presumption of innocence seems to me to make the former the more objectionable.

[jittery]

Hi

Sure, I felt the urge to say it, that's all.

On levels of non-guilt, I have met definite offenders. I have tried to help those who I have every reason to believe are definite victims. Now, if I were to try to determine percentages, coming from some experience in social research, I have to say that I can identify no reliable way of measuring this - even if definitions were not shifting and difficult (eg, a rape in marriage in the 80s was not "rape". in the statistics, "statutory" rape, etc). I absolutely shy away from trying to find a percentage, you may well be right at 40%, you may well be wrong. All I can say is that the assumptions that all non convictions = gotawaywithiters, is ********. Similarly arguing all innocence-claimers are innocent must also be ********. So the figure is somewhere between the two, obviously not near either extreme (allowing your 40% to be possible, of course). Other than that, how the hell will we ever know? But what I do know that one convicted innocent person is an affront to civilisation. Guilty people going free is also an anathema, but the presumption of innocence seems to me to make the former the more objectionable.

Of course you are right: it's not my considered opinion that 40% of rape claims are false, it's simply that I've read this statistic 3 or 4 times, so it seems a good figure to work with. I would agree with you entirely on what you have written. For now though I intend to have a cup of tea then go to bed- not much fun going back to manual graft in your 50s; take some getting used to!

[Casehardened]

With regard to the percentage of reported rapes that are genuine, I occasionally resurrect this link to Inspector Gadget's blog (which unfortunately has now silenced) which gives the view of an experienced serving officer on the matter:

http://www.angryharry.com/esOneThird...pists.htm?note (second section down)

[anonsteve]

Well, that was interesting, but hardly reliable research. I know you are already on the same page as me, but even if things that people say are their assessments might "feel" rightish to me, I am wary of what seems to be "about right" or intuitive - and my own intuitions are no different. Anyway, I have good evidence that my intuitions are iffy - Why would I marry someone likely to make false claims about me later? Clearly I am a deeply flawed human being when it comes to intuition. But I have no reason to think I am widely different to most people. 40%? why not? Its more than none and less than all. But I think we may be counting angels on pins here. What I detest are headlines like the Telegraph in January - only one in 30 rapists ever punished - because it assumes that all non-convictions means 29/30 gotawaywithiters. And that gets right under my skin, because even if my accuser gets banged up, I will still be a gotawaywithiter, wont I ? [stop, breath, check blood pressure, breath, post rant]

[Casehardened]

What is alarming (and what Inspector Gadget has highlighted) is the number of rape accusations that materialise from within a relationship, never mind whether this was a transitory or a permanent one (could this be where that figure has come from: 40% of rape accusations are made by a partner?)

The easy answer is that the system has made it easy for an angry and disillusioned partner to move on whilst staying in the property and keeping the sympathy of friends by alleging that they were an unwilling participant in a particular liaison a couple of years ago. These sort of accusations are usually quickly dismissed by a jury should they even get to court but of course the damage has been done.

However this leads to a wider debate as to why these accusations surface in some relationships and not in others where the degree of provocation is just as great. Is it all down to compatibility and how particular individuals can stoke up or calm down emotions in others...

[jittery]

hi

What is alarming (and what Inspector Gadget has highlighted) is the number of rape accusations that materialise from within a relationship, never mind whether this was a transitory or a permanent one (could this be where that figure has come from: 40% of rape accusations are made by a partner?)

The easy answer is that the system has made it easy for an angry and disillusioned partner to move on whilst staying in the property and keeping the sympathy of friends by alleging that they were an unwilling participant in a particular liaison a couple of years ago. These sort of accusations are usually quickly dismissed by a jury should they even get to court but of course the damage has been done.

However this leads to a wider debate as to why these accusations surface in some relationships and not in others where the degree of provocation is just as great. Is it all down to compatibility and how particular individuals can stoke up or calm down emotions in others...

hi both,
Very interesting casehardened, I think you're being sceptical to be honest anonsteve. All evidence seems to point to false accusations being the larger rather than the lesser percentage of cases. I think getting bogged down by whether these figures are accurate or not isn't really the issue. I know when I did my dissertation I got bogged down and sceptical of my analyses and statistical methods. I would agree with case hardened, it opens up the question of why this happens.
Of the few people I've told, the only opinion ventured is that it sounds as though she was upset because I went out instead of staying with her as she wanted on saturday night. There may be other underlying causes though, including revenge on mankind, but I won't labour the point. I wish I knew.