Director of public prosecutions new guidelines on rape

[Needadvice1]

Hi, I've posted recently about my partner being falsely accused of rape after drunken one night stand (he was also drunk)

Well I've also recently been reading Alison Saunders (director of public prosecution) new guidelines on rape cases, she's basically said that if a woman was drunk then sex was not consented (that's how I read it anyway)

Here's a paragraph from a news article I read:'new guidance will be issued to all police forces and prosecutors as part of a 'toolkit' to move rape investigations into the 21st century

Men accused of date rape will need to convince police that a woman consented to sex as part of a major change in the way sex offences are investigated.'

So if I'm right in how I've interpreted this then potentially my partner is screwed?

My partner was due in court this month but the case has been moved to middle of this year now and I just want to know if these new guidelines will affect his case in anyway - is he more likely to be found guilty now?

Thank you

[Tdm]

If being intoxicated defines consent then would it not stand to reason that an intoxicated male did not consent to the woman having sex with him either? Had the man gone to the police first would they have investigated her for sexual abuse? Are all drunken sexual encounters now supposed to be reported to police because in theory both parties sexually assaulted each other? Can a married couple who goes out for drinks, comes home, makes love, get in trouble for not reporting rape and sexual abuse to the police? I don't understand.

[edinashed]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ape-rules.html


I'm on a very poor tablet so I'm not gonna be able to copy and paste from the article but I don't think this woman is saying that unless you have a signed declaration of consent you are commiting rape. I think she is more saying that police may ask e.g how did you know she was consenting throughout? To which you would you presumably say that she was encouraging you to do xyz to her or said she said it felt nice, she was wet between her legs etc.

[whatsgoingon?]

There's something a bit screwey about this whole thing.

[Needadvice1]

Edina- thanks for clarifying I probably misinterpreted what I read I think it's partly because another quote in the article said something like 'no means no and now yes doesn't always mean yes'?!

Tdm - that was my initial thoughts it just seemed like madness.

So I shouldn't worry too much about her guidelines affecting my partners case? Although how do you prove that the woman consented when it's your word against theirs? I think there is something very wrong with the system at the moment - whilst I agree that rape is a disgusting and abhorrent crime there is very little to protect men from being victims of false accusers, I'm seeing so much in the news about women crying rape after a one night stand - I'm sure some of these women where genuinely taken advantage of - but a majority of cases just seem like 'regret sex' or revenge when the guy loses interest or gives the impression they just wanted sex, there doesn't seem to be anyone brave enough to speak out and raise the issue that yes some girls do lie about being raped.

[edinashed]

I was under the impression though that the police or cps had to prove a crime was commtted and that the accused was under no obligation to prove or disprove anything e.g the right to remain silent. Is that right to be taken away...

[Rights Fighter]

I was under the impression though that the police or cps had to prove a crime was commtted and that the accused was under no obligation to prove or disprove anything e.g the right to remain silent. Is that right to be taken away...

That was in the good old days when there were no Government-set conviction targets to meet

[Boys don't cry]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ape-rules.html

I don't think this woman is saying that unless you have a signed declaration of consent you are commiting rape. I think she is more saying that police may ask e.g how did you know she was consenting throughout? To which you would you presumably say that she was encouraging you to do xyz to her or said she said it felt nice, she was wet between her legs etc.

I do agree with you Edinashed as I read this piece of news a few weeks ago and have been thinking a lot about this.
If a person accused have to prove to the police that a female (or male) said the exact word "Yes" the prisons will be quickly full.
The definition of rape is:

A person A is guilty of an offence if she/he acts intentionally,
B does not consent to the act, and
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

So in fact the law should change the third line and replace A does not reasonably believe that B consents by only B verbally consents.

When in court even though we are innocent until proven guilty,we still have to defend ourselves with the help of solicitors and if possible evidence as most of the time it is one word against another and there are no witnesses.

You wrote:
I was under the impression though that the police or cps had to prove a crime was commtted and that the accused was under no obligation to prove or disprove anything e.g the right to remain silent. Is that right to be taken away...

You have the right to remain silent when interviewed by the police but I suggest you do it advised by a solicitor.
Each case is different and sometimes (I believe) it is worth answering to their questions .

[edinashed]

With regard to no comment, if you haven't committed an offence then you should give a full version of events is what I was told as a young man. No comment is beneficial when you have in fact done something and then the burden of proof then falls with the police and cps.

I agree with these new guidelines in some ways because genuine rape victims deserve justice. I think you need to fully read that article and about different types of victims to understand why these new guidelines make sense. What I have a worry about is whether consent can be implied through behaviour and body language. Once you are intimate do you need to ask explicitly "can I have penetrative sex with you?" after the initial foreplay or whatever.

[breathagain]

Really?

With regard to no comment, if you haven't committed an offence then you should give a full version of events is what I was told as a young man. No comment is beneficial when you have in fact done something and then the burden of proof then falls with the police and cps.

I agree with these new guidelines in some ways because genuine rape victims deserve justice. I think you need to fully read that article and about different types of victims to understand why these new guidelines make sense. What I have a worry about is whether consent can be implied through behaviour and body language. Once you are intimate do you need to ask explicitly "can I have penetrative sex with you?" after the initial foreplay or whatever.

Is that misleading and presumptuous to think that no comment should only be said if you have committed a crime? When most solissolicitors advice to say no comment as the police tend to want to trap and trick you with questions as meeting targets is the aim above justice?

[edinashed]

Is that misleading and presumptuous to think that no comment should only be said if you have committed a crime? When most solissolicitors advice to say no comment as the police tend to want to trap and trick you with questions as meeting targets is the aim above justice?

No that's not what I meant, I beg your pardon. I was highlighting an instance where no comment can help by not incriminating yourself iyswim.