Would really appreciate some advice/views please??

[Needadvice1]

Hi,

My partner has been falsely accused of rape after a drunken one night stand.
The case has been going on a couple of years now and he's due to go to court in the next few weeks, I know it's a long shot but it would be really helpful if anyone could give me insight on the kind of outcome we can expect

Also I don't know how much detail I'm allowed to say so please tell me if im over sharing
Basically he got with 2 girls (over legal age) at his house, they had all been drinking and where all tipsy, the first girl agreed to anal sex as she was on her period but on the provision that if it hurt too much he would stop - after he penetrated she said it hurt so he stopped. He then 'tried his luck' and went off to the other girl to see if she would have sex with him, she agreed, they went to the bedroom and had sex (girl1 was in the bathroom at this time) girl 1 eventually came out the bathroom got angry that she had caught him and her friend together and stormed out.
The next day my partner was asked to go to the station where he was accused of rape.

The thing is I have been looking over the girls statements and they don't add up, theres vital areas where the 2 statements should match and they don't, they change their accounts throughout the interviews, the accounts don't match the statements they initially gave in the hospital (where they had swabs taken), they also claimed to be paralytic but toxicology reports said they where we'll under legal drink and drive limit.

sorry its a long post but I wander if anyone has any experience like this and what the outcome was.

Even the solicitor is saying its a joke that it's even got this far because of the blatant discrepancies, but I wander if she's just trying to make him feel better?

Is he likely to be convicted or does truth usually prevail in these trials?? (I know I'm basically asking for a fortune teller but I really need some insight)

I know the above is a bit sleazy but it doesn't make him a rapist

Thanks in advance

[Casehardened]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

Firstly it is good that you are supporting your partner through this; he may well not say much but be assured that this will make a huge difference to how he copes with the forthcoming trial.

I'm not quite sure from your account whether he is being accused of raping both girls or just the first? This is fairly important as if the second girl didn't accuse him, her evidence in the witness box and successful cross-examination thereof will be critical to the outcome of the case.

If they have both accused him of rape then, as you say, you must both concentrate on the discrepancies between what actually happened and what they said in their statements and the discrepancies between their statements.

What you discover will give your legal team (solicitor and barrister) ammunition to fight the case.

It is impossible for any of us to predict the outcome but what I can say is that those members who have received a NG verdict invariably compliment their barrister on their sterling efforts in demolishing the evidence of the complaintants. I would therefore suggest trying to find out who your solicitor intends to use and do some internet research. For these sort of cases it is so important to use a legal team with experience in defending against false allegations; other members have posted personal recommndations in this thread but it is by no means an exhaustive list:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ist-solicitors

[Needadvice1]

Thanks for reply

Thanks for replying, it's both girls accusing him.

There are loads of discrepancies in the accounts.
I.e. Girl 1 said she saw him raping girl 2 in the living room - 2 things on this: 1) if you see someone raping your friend why would you storm out 2) girl 2 claims she was raped in the bedroom.
Girl 1, in her initial statement said that after the incident she was sat on the bed before walking to the living room, in the police interview she claims to have passed out and can't remember
Girl 1 said in her initial statement that she said 'no' prior to incident happening but in police interview when asked 'did you at any point before the incident make it clear you didn't want sex' she shook her head.
Girl 2, in her initial statement said she was forced onto the bed, in her police statement this changed to she fell onto the bed 'conveniently in doggy position'
There's loads others but its too much to detail. And it's just general things like their stories are detailed right up until the 'incidents' and suddenly they can't remember particularly when questioned with 'and how did you get in the position' or 'how did your shorts come off'. their stories don't correlate to each other and change throughout the interview, also once they get passed the questioning of the actual incident they suddenly go back to answering in detail.
I don't think they where planning to go to the police, a witness called police becaus they where creating a scene outside (girl 1 angry because of catching girl 2) when the witness called the police girl 1 shouted at him 'why did you do that, why did you grass us up?'

With regards to barristers were using legal aid so I'm not sure if we have much choice??

Another thing - we saw the interview tape for girl 2 and she was laughing and joking in the interviews, slouched back and speaking so confidently - it was as if it was a joke to her, is this normal behaviour for someone who's 'been raped'??

Our lives are completely messed up, my partners lost his job, he's got major depression and has turned to drink - in the last 6 months it's been all day every day

[Casehardened]

My own view on this is that if your partner had 'raped' the girls on separate occasions and separate days it might be more believable even if they knew each other.

For two friends to be consecutively 'raped' by one man, who is probably no stronger than either of them, especially as they were in separate rooms, without one or other running out into the street for help beggars belief; perhaps you won't need a specialist barrister after all, I think even I could win this case

Seriously, you have done the right thing by listing the discrepancies in the statements; what you know need is someone who can put this over to the jury. You can tactfuly enquire of your solicitor if they had anyone in mind yet and then look their credentials up on the web. If not there is no harm in you making some suggestions yourself; as you say, not all barristers will work on legal aid so you will have to shop around. A female is always good in these cases as cross-examination will seem less threatening.

Tryto encourage your partner to be positive; his attitude in the witness box is very important as the jury will be 'judging' both him and the girls.

[Rights Fighter]

As usual CH is spot on with his advice. However, as it's going to court soon I can only assume he already has defence representation.

Facebook can be a very useful tool. It the complainants' profiles are viewable to the public you can take screenshots of anything that might be useful, potential retractions and mentions of a lot of money coming to them soon.

You must never under any circumstance be tempted to 'chat' to the complaints or their friends on social media. You are perfectly entitled to use what they say on there, though. A trial I was involved with back in 2013 was dumped on the 2nd day due to evidence that I found on Facebook. The evidence was shown to the prosecuting barrister, who then decided that there would be no conviction should the jury see it. it would have been admissible.

That sort of evidence can also be used to "correct a false impression". For instance, if they say they are too scared to go out, and there haven't had any social life due to the "trauma", if there are conversations or better still, photos, screenshot those too. Do not copy and paste as words can be edited so only screenshots will do, or photos taken of the screen (by mobile phone for instance) and then passed to the defence solicitor.

[Needadvice1]

Thanks both for the advice,
Their social media accounts are private - I don't think it would be for money (my partner wasn't a massively high earner or in any position of power) I think it's more that they have their families and friends/boyfriends believe they are saints who don't sleep around - I say this because they were telling my partner all the things they get up to (drinking, partying etc) but a family member made a statement claiming them to be 'shy and retiring' and saying 'I believe they must have been drugged' well obviously reports came back that they wernt drugged. I also think for girl 1 it might be a bit of a revenge thing as she and him had been texting/flirting in the weeks before so she may have been put out that he slept with her friend.

I'm just so worried, things can go either way it's literally their word against his. And I've just read a report on daily mail saying that 'rape suspects will now have to prove the accuser said yes' I mean without a written and signed contract how does he do that?? It also basically says that if a woman is drunk then she can't really consent to sex - so potentially any drunk woman can now cry rape purely on the basis of regretting her actions?? Is it now the case that: no means no, saying nothing means no and now yes (if drunk/tipsy) means no??

The barrister is female so I'm glad that's in his favour.

Does anyone know why this has gone to court? Cos I honestly can't see how CPS could think the evidence they have is worthy (mainly because girls stories are so bad)

I'm sure the police where pushing for a prosecution because when they where questioning girl 1 she at first said that he stopped after she asked him to. they kept digging and digging saying 'how many movements before he stopped she said just one, then they kept asking so how many times did he 'go in' after you said stop and she said 3, so they've managed to come up with - he went in 3 times in one motion before he stopped - that doesn't make sense or am I just mad??!

I'm sure if she tries to claim she went to get help they will question why she had a go at some guy for calling the police - surely you would want that?

This is so stressful, I'm so worried he will be found guilty just because it seems so many people favour women in these cases - no one wants to accept that women should take responsibility for their actions in some situations. It's soo hard not knowing if they will see through these girls lies, but I'm sure they won't be able to say guilty beyond all reasonable doubt!!??

[Casehardened]

No one would wish to give you false optimism, this wouldn't be helpful but, but as you have noted, the police are now directed to believe the 'victim' if they make an allegation no matter how their unlikely their story is, providing it could possibly have happened (i.e. the defendant hasn't an alibi or a witness)

On the other hand, the jury have had no such directive and is likely to be composed of sensible folks such as you and I who will evaluate these statements for what they are worth as we have done.

However they will inevitably also make a judgement based on how your partner comes across in the witness box so, as I mentioned in a earlier post, it is important to prepare him for this. There has been some discussion about this previously on the forum and hopefully members who have been through this may be able to offer advice.

[Rights Fighter]

Thanks both for the advice,

Their social media accounts are private - I don't think it would be for money (my partner wasn't a massively high earner or in any position of power)

Does anyone know why this has gone to court? Cos I honestly can't see how CPS could think the evidence they have is worthy (mainly because girls stories are so bad)

...............

They would apply for "compensation" from the CICA (Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority). It's a shopping list.....

None of us can know why it has resulted in a charge and therefore going to court. None of us have seen any of the paperwork or privy to CPS decision -making section.... All you can do is to continue to rip everything apart and make sure the discrepancies come out at trial (depending on whether it is admissible).

[can it get worse]

No one would wish to give you false optimism, this wouldn't be helpful but, but as you have noted, the police are now directed to believe the 'victim' if they make an allegation no matter how their unlikely their story is, providing it could possibly have happened (i.e. the defendant hasn't an alibi or a witness)

On the other hand, the jury have had no such directive and is likely to be composed of sensible folks such as you and I who will evaluate these statements for what they are worth as we have done.

However they will inevitably also make a judgement based on how your partner comes across in the witness box so, as I mentioned in a earlier post, it is important to prepare him for this. There has been some discussion about this previously on the forum and hopefully members who have been through this may be able to offer advice.

I fully echo what CH has posted.

My partner went to trial and rec'd a speedy NG. Pure common sense would have shown the allegations to be lies but CPS chose to take it to court. They withheld much of the information right until the end and we had a struggle to get it out of them. As more information came out, it became more apparent that CPS are not interested in the truth.
CH expressed his views about the jury - I fully agree. In our case, the liar came across badly and was aggressive towards our very lovely defence barrister. Our witnesses would have come across as trustworthy.

Please take guidance from your barrister of conduct within the court room. e.g.addressing the jury when answering questions.

Wishing you lots of strength.

[Needadvice1]

Good to hear that your partner received not guilty, and interesting to know that CPS are not really interested in the truth - I always (naively) Thought they remained objective and impartial! That makes me feel a bit more confident, also I didn't know prosecution can withold evidence, we're missing at least 3 pages (statements Etc) and the police didn't bother to get -what I would consider - important cctv footage.

[can it get worse]

Hi - CPS/police (not sure which?) had information which they believed would NOT assist the prosecution and they therefore did not automatically provide this for the defence. Our sol had to repeatedly request for this information.

You need to push your defence team to gather this evidence. The jury have a big responsibility to get it right. They need to have all the information in order to make their verdict.

[Rights Fighter]

Absolutely correct CIGW

The solicitor and/or barrister should receive "unused Material" and also "unused Schedules". These tend to appear as and when CPS decide to disclose them. Often what is on the Schedules (lists) is not what is needed for the Defence, hence the need for counsel to check and double check what might assist.

Often the Crown will try to argue that it is "CND" - "Clearly Not Disclosable". Defence, if they feel it should be disclosed, will argue for it. If it is not forthcoming they can put the request before a judge in a pre trial hearing and sometimes known as PII - Public Interest and Immunity. Often that might include SS records, medical, counselling etc.

Defence are entitled to know whether the complainant has any bad character - previous cautions or convictions. That is not always put before the jury (if there is any) as it could be classed as 'irrelevant' however if there are cautions or convictions for dishonesty, say, fraud, then Defence may well be able to put that to the jury, if a potential motive is financial.

[innocentson]

nDC guidance

Hi ; this is useful info for me too RF - so many thanks for alerting me to this one.

We are still awaiting details or visibility of unused materials list : as well as things I think should be there from the year / event in question, that aren't even listed. Like what investigations done at that time / file etc. how do we ask for these without alerting them to our possible defence strategy ?

Also : some of the detail I don't wish to share on here for reasons others have eluded to e.g. Eyes of FA / cps etc. would you allow me to pm you a question directly ?

Completely understand if you are too busy ...

Many thanks for consideration

Innocents mum

[Rights Fighter]

I'm up to my eyes at the moment and can't get involved in another case until I have finished what I am working on.

The solicitor/barrister should be able to make an argument without giving away too much, for evidence that has not yet been disclosed.

Not sure what you mean by " Eyes of FA / cps etc. "

[innocentson]

I'm up to my eyes at the moment and can't get involved in another case until I have finished what I am working on.

The solicitor/barrister should be able to make an argument without giving away too much, for evidence that has not yet been disclosed.

Not sure what you mean by " Eyes of FA / cps etc. "

No problem ; thanks anyway.
Just trying to confirm the approach our legal team is advising is the right one. Eg that we don't have to get everything in one go

And didn't want to put too many details of our case ( eg things I think we should ask for) in case seen by false accuser or cps etc as I think others have indicated that sometimes these type of people will look on this site.