now a bill for legal aid

[dinch]

My friend and his girlfriend had to fill out forms re how much they earn outgoings ect they today received a notice they have to pay£1.300 pounds every month for legal aid after their outgoings not food they will have no money for that, the Girlfriend who has stood by him has had enough and is returning to her parents home and her name will be removed from the house rental documents has she feels she has not commited a crime so why should she be FINED by the legal system.he is at Crown court where he will plead guilty to the low grade images(10) incl some from many years ago also talking to her on chatroom but he will plead Not Guilty to "Sexual Activity on a Minor" has he still insists it did not happen, its wrong that the Girlfriend should be fined this way has she has commited any crime.

[Casehardened]

I believe that if he were to be found not guilty he can apply to have some or all of the defence costs refunded but am unsure as what will happen as he is pleading guilty to the possession charge and not guilty to the activity; possibly if found NG of the activity charge a proportion of the costs will be refunded.

Just out of curiosity, will both charges be heard at the same hearing? Just that if the jury hear that he is pleading guilty to possession they may well take a negative view on the activity charge.

[dinch]

reply to question

He has to go to crown court to plead, been to magistrates where the Girls parents caused a scean shouting at him calling him a paedo ! magistrate warned them then ejected they then confronted outside the court room and were told to leave by the Police, my friend told the Police he was worried about his Girlfriend who is in the Car in car park Police said they had been warned and had left ,they later contacted the Police who had been investigating, she had Marked their card re conduct ect.Now do not know if he has told his solicitor he intends to plead guilty to possession(police told him he will get a third off any time given ! he intends to fight the activity, would suppose his solicitor would advise against pleading guilty to both, he is residing himself to getting time if found guilty and loosing his job, they were looking at the worse outcome but you never know look at the high profile cases that have gone to court and found not guilty!Think all charges will be dealt with at same time would honestly think his breif will advise to plead NG to all charges.
hope that answers your question, honestly worried about his Girlfriend State of mind not that she will do anything stupid but affect her health!

[myhome]

Sorry I haven't read all the thread - you say your friend is going to plead guilty to possessing images. Is he guilty? If not - there's no way he should plead guilty to it. Once pleaded it cannot be retracted and has all sorts of repercussions for his future in prison and his life after he comes out. Some sols will try to get their clients to plead guilty to a "lesser" charge as a plea bargain and the promise of a shorter time in prison. However, if he isn't guilty he shouldn't be going to prison anyway....

[Casehardened]

Hi Dinch,

I know your post was about the question of your friend having to contribute towards his legal aid but I think the matter of his plea is far more important; as MH says, the implications of a guilty plea and having to sign the SOR will be significant for his future.

Hopefully he will discuss this with his solicitor before coming to a final decision, but my thoughts are (a) if the forensic evidence that he received/stored the photos (I recollect from your previous thread that these were on his phone) is overwhelming, then to deny possession by pleading NG may cause the jury to question his denial of the sexual activity (b) a guilty plea to possession indicates an 'interest' and will taint the not guilty plea.

A difficult situation and decision; but if after full consideration and discussion he goes with the guilty plea, hopefully his barrister will make representations to the judge that this is not to be disclosed to the jury until after they have reached their verdict on the activity charge.

Finally, you mentioned that the images were 10 low grade; if so (depending on his definition of 'low grade') this in itself may not result in a custodial sentence:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s...s_of_children/

[dinch]

reply

Hi casehardened

The number of charges are 1 Sexual Activity with a minor(he says not guilty also her statement of event and things said he is livid has that did not happen!! he is really mad about it, the other are each image is a charge think no more than 10 if that!! incl some very old images he cannot remember but could have been a old Girlfriend over 16 years or even the Child of his Then Girlfriend after a bath ? taken with mother present you know innocent pictures with no sexual intent(he has not seen these images yet so cannot comment.
Yes understand everything you good people have said yes its a difficult situation and i hope he will listen to his brief he was going to talk to a Special Rape Brief on the phone but cost to just talk for half an hour was a lot of money!!
He is getting sighted up to maybe go to jail ! his thoughts are i did chat on a chat room but she the Girl knew the person she was talking to was not her age has she knew he was to meet her in his CAR so she knew he was older than herself so he has not made out he is same age has her this is not grooming in the normal meaning of grooming, according to him she said(so he tells me) she was 18ish! so he though she was an adult and only when she see her that day did he realise she was not 18ish.
Dinch

[lawlessone2009]

Hi casehardened

The number of charges are 1 Sexual Activity with a minor(he says not guilty also her statement of event and things said he is livid has that did not happen!! he is really mad about it, the other are each image is a charge think no more than 10 if that!! incl some very old images he cannot remember but could have been a old Girlfriend over 16 years or even the Child of his Then Girlfriend after a bath ? taken with mother present you know innocent pictures with no sexual intent(he has not seen these images yet so cannot comment.
Yes understand everything you good people have said yes its a difficult situation and i hope he will listen to his brief he was going to talk to a Special Rape Brief on the phone but cost to just talk for half an hour was a lot of money!!
He is getting sighted up to maybe go to jail ! his thoughts are i did chat on a chat room but she the Girl knew the person she was talking to was not her age has she knew he was to meet her in his CAR so she knew he was older than herself so he has not made out he is same age has her this is not grooming in the normal meaning of grooming, according to him she said(so he tells me) she was 18ish! so he though she was an adult and only when she see her that day did he realise she was not 18ish.
Dinch

He cannot plead guilty if he's not even seen the images!

If the images are treated individually and charged individually then he will only plead to the images he feels that he is guilty with regards too.

The images and then the charge of sexual activity show an escalation of offending. If he is found guilty of the sexual activity then I would fear a jail sentence would result. I am not entirely certain how the prosecution and his defence team go about their business with regards to the with-holding of the guilty pleas.

16 is the legal age of consent. If he is noticeably older then it may well not sit right with a jury.

As for legal aid. If his partner has moved out then the legal aid application will need to be re-written. Remember that if there is found to be 'discrepancies' (ie: with girlfriend hasn't really moved out) then there could be further criminal charges.... Play it honest and by the book as it does no favours in the long run to attempt to circumvent things especially when the law's already on his back.

[dinch]

reply

The girl is going to move back to her parents home and will not be living with him, but would return after Crown Court is over .

[lawlessone2009]

That's cool. Need to insist that the legal aid application is re-jigged to take that into account.

Hell, for that kinda money he'd be better going unemployed until it's all over..........

One other thing popped into my head. He can't simply plead guilty or accept anything unless he has seen the evidence. He needs to analyse each picture/piece of evidence and then with legal advice decide what he is going to do. For all he knows there could be evidence for 1 charge and he's going to get lumbered with 10! For instance...