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**Casehardened** · 24 March 2013, 01:02 PM

Hi,

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum though I am completely at a loss as to how to respond to you. Your situation is beyond difficult; how can you take come down against one of your children above another. Once again I feel that the mothers on the forum will have a far better understanding of your feelings than I possibly could have.

However for the sake of your sanity I feel that this may be one of the few instances where it would be better to take a step back and let the professionals deal with the investigative process; as you rightly say if you were to have an input either way you would feel you would be betraying one or other of your children.

**Izzy** · 24 March 2013, 04:57 PM

Hi, I'm so sorry you have found yourself in such a terrible position.
As a Mum I can't begin to imagine what you are going through.

Your 12 year old is so young to be arrested and placed in Foster Care. Is there any other option - perhaps a Grandparent or other relative he could stay with
while the investigation is on-going?

I think all you can do is to support both your Sons but I think in order to do that you will need support yourself. Do you have a good G.P. you could
confide it?

**whatsgoingon?** · 24 March 2013, 05:07 PM

Hi Underpressure, welcome to the forum.

You've had great advice from Izzy and CH

I completely sympathise with the distress you must be feeling: children do lie (as you've already been unfortunate enough to experience), sometimes it's due to an over-active imagination or to get attention; they sometimes lie in order to get a brother or sister into serious trouble (I've had experience of this ) and they also experiment in sexual ways (I'm sure most have experienced this). What was once seen as a harmless part of growing up seems to have taken on much darker significance lately. People assume small children not to have a sexuality of their own and that's just not true.

I think you can probably illiminate your eldest son (then aged 10 ?) from having put his willy into his then 3 year old brother's bum (as you put it). I doubt it would have been physically possible and I'm sure you'd have noticed some damage. As for your friend's 3 year old... it 's quite possible that he heard snippets of the conversation, or was told things by your 5 year old.

You say you are going to get a solicitor for your eldest - make sure it's one who is specialises in sexual offences AS WELL AS dealing with children .
I would also be tempted to make an appointment for your 5 yr old to see a child pyschiatrist to try and find out what lies behind his lies- maybe your GP can help.
I think CH is spot- on when he says to let the professionals do thier investigations and actually, I think I defiantely wouldn't take sides in this, they both need your love and support , but let it be known that the youngest does lie.

This must be such a hard time for you - 4 boys, on your own... you deserve a medal!
Please don't lose heart, keep coming back on here. You'll get different reponses from different people and that's part of the beauty of this forum.

**Casehardened** · 24 March 2013, 05:51 PM

Thanks Izzy & Whatsgoingon for your reasoned and helpful replies to Underpressure; I really was hoping that you would respond as only a mum can fully emphasize (and fully understand the behaviour of those peculiar mammals, otherwise known as children)

**Faith** · 24 March 2013, 06:16 PM

What an utterly atrocious situation for you to be put in.
I am glad you have found us, if only for the emotional support.

There is no quick fix to something like this. I would echo Izzy's advice that seeking your own medical support is paramount as to be able to support both of your children through this situation will require you to be at your peak.

There is nothing wrong with giving your eldest child the benefit of the doubt. No mother would want to believe anything so horrific of their child and currently, there is nothing to say otherwise except for the admittedly dubious word of your other lad who, for whatever reason, is prone to making up stories.

One thing that will crop up is the concern that a 5 year old would know about such things such as oral and anal sex. Is there any way (through accidentally viewing television or internet sites for example or through overhearing older people talk) that he would be aware of these things? Prepare for that question, as it will be asked. The main line of argument will be that 'a 5 year old can not possibly know about these things unless they happened.' This, of course, is not necessarily true...children are scarily aware of things they shouldn't be at young ages in many situations.

Please keep coming here for support. You need it right now.

**underpressure1981** · 25 March 2013, 01:40 AM

thank you for your replys, unfortunatly my children do know about stuff like that bar the 2 year old,ive always been honest with my children about stuff like this and ive always made them aware of sexual abuse and pedos and that its not always strangers and what type of things can happen ,never in detail but enough so there aware what can happen and how wrong it is and if anyone makes them feel uncomfortable and touches them etc then to tell someone straight away,
ive been more honest with my son whose 12 whenever he is curious or asks sexual questions and told him as much as i feel he needs to know,
i used to be very embarrassed about even hearing the word sex in front of my children until i did a course at a child centre about it years ago
i have told him not to say anything to his brothers as they will learn when there older but kids being kids its just a silly joke to them and they also learn stuff from other children at school that know different stuff.

i am going to find a solicitor that has dealt with stuff like this before as that is important to me and unfortunately the police asked my 12 year old son if he wanted a solicitor when he was interviewed and he refused but like a 12year old will know they need one,when i was arrested i didnt even know and im 31 but luckily i chose to have one.there planning on charging him with sexual assault and he would be put on the sex offenders register and im terrified for him,i am allowed to see him thursday in a contact centre if i can find a babysitter for my other 2 children as there not allowed to see him but the youngest is allowed to come,he continues to go to school 5minutes up

i am doing everything i can to support both children and due to everyone in my family having children in there houses including my parents hes not allowed anywhere else.

**Saffron** · 26 March 2013, 01:14 PM

Hello UnderPressure and welcome.
I can't add anything to the exceptionaly advice which has been offered so far, but I wanted to welcome you.
S

**myhome** · 26 March 2013, 10:16 PM

Hi Underpressure and welcome tot he forum but really sorry you had to find us.

What a dreadful position you are in - you've been given some good advice already and I would only add that you read other threads, posts and stickies and keep posting to get some support from members who can advice you...

Keep strong

**underpressure1981** · 31 March 2013, 01:27 PM

hi everyone,i have seen my eldest in a contact centre for 1 hour 8 days after it happened and was good to see him although horrible in the centre constantly be watched by a social worker and her jotting things down and i get to see him again on thursday,hes bail date is 20th may which i find a disgrace considering his age and the fact i still believe his innocent and not because i want to but ive gone through things in my head a million times and it dont add up,ive demanded that my 5 year old gets tested for autism etc as ive been saying it for years and today is easter and im having to be strong and do hunts,dinner and make my other 3 children have a special day cos im all theyve got so have to stay on top,my doctor has put me on anti depressents to cushion me going through all this.
i feel awful all the time but i cant let myself get down or struggle cos social services will swoop in and take my other boys,unfortunatly there not there to help they just build a case and take your kids and i despise them what they do to people but im plodding along and its all i can do at the moment,
ive also got myeldest a very good solicitor so all is hopeful x

**Rights Fighter** · 31 March 2013, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by underpressure1981 View Post

........and the fact i still believe his innocent and not because i want to but ive gone through things in my head a million times and it dont add up,ive demanded that my 5 year old gets tested for autism etc as ive been saying it for years .........

Being autistic does not mean that he is lying. Autism has nothing to do with the ability to lie - or not - as the case may be.

If he is found to be autistic, the CPS could so easily say that that makes him more vulnerable to abuse than a 'normal' (whatever 'normal' is) person. Please don't set any store by that.

If the 5 year old is lying, then you need to find out how he knows about making false allegations of sexual abuse. It's a hell of a thing for a 5 year old to make up in his own head, if he's never heard of anybody else doing that.

**underpressure1981** · 2 April 2013, 09:46 PM

im not saying autism would cause him to lie but he is a special kid and hes different,regardless of whats happened ive been requesting he gets tested for years but no one listened.
also why would he make up i burnt him with a lighter and when asked how he elaborated the lie by saying i held a lighter to his hand until it burnt it,i lost my kids into care for 8 days til he finally told the truth!!he was only just 4 and 2 months old-hes very clever and ive said he should be an author when hes older because his imagination is bursting with stories to be told.
i have made my kids aware of pedophiles and what sexual abuse is,as its the one thing that scares me the most when it comes to my children - someone taking away there innocence,maybe some wont agree with me doing so but it so often happens and i wanted them to know that if something like that happens they tell,i also told my 5 year old when he falsely accused him of it before that my eldest would get arrested and taken away by social services ,i wonder if me saying that has made him do it if he was angry with his brother?
also my eldest shares a room with my 8 year old son who swears nothing has ever happened to him and hes way more reserved and idolizes his elder brother so he could probably get away with it with him. so why would he do it to his 5 year old brother knowing he would tell straight away it just dosnt add up hes not a stupid boy!!!
my 5 year old also cried his eyes out saying he wants his brother home after a week and said he misses him,as its under investigation i cant ask direct questions but it does worry me as i have to stay neutral as there both my sons and support both of them the best i can,
i feel angry most of the time not with my children but just in general,its my coping mechanism kicking in,i just wish there was another way i could cope and feel strong without the anger

x

**underpressure1981** · 2 April 2013, 09:49 PM

also what scares the hell out of me is theres no proof,no evidence ,just one childs word against another childs word how are they going to know whether its true or not?

**Mortons** · 3 April 2013, 09:58 PM

I agree with the above comments about getting a Solicitor. Make an apt to see them to get some advice,
Plus importantly to establish a rappour. At least then if your son needs to be spoken with again he will feel "less uncomfortable" when the solicitor is present.

If you can't persuade him, its handy to know in case you son has to go back to the police station.

Basically even if your son says No to a solicitor, the Appropriate adult can ask for one and consult with them. Whilst noone can force the youth to speak to them, usually in my experience once the solicitor arrives in person they will relent.

Code:

Police And Criminal Evidence Act - Code C, Paragraph 6.5A 

"In the case of a person who is a juvenile or is mentally disordered or otherwise mentally 
vulnerable, an appropriate adult should consider whether legal advice from a solicitor is 
required. If the person indicates that they do not want legal advice, the appropriate adult 
has the right to ask for a solicitor to attend if this would be in the best interests of the 
person. However, the person cannot be forced to see the solicitor if they are adamant that 
they do not wish to do so."

I never advocate anyone doing a police interview as a suspect unrepresented.
In my opinion the people who need the most legal advice are not necessarily the guilty, but those who don't think they've done anything wrong, and those who haven't been arrested before.

**underpressure1981** · 3 April 2013, 11:55 PM

i think it was more of the fact hes 12 he didnt know he needed one,guilty or innocent i think a solicitor is always the best route to go down,thanks for your advice ,any help and support is greatly appreciated x

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12 year old son accused of sexual assaulting his 5 year old brother-please help

12 year old son accused of sexual assaulting his 5 year old brother-please help

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