hello. I am new.

[lonley place]

Hi ...The trouble with statistics is they are rarely accurate. Unless your life is turned upside down
by a false accusation you don't even think about the situations others are in and its a case of the blind leading the blind. We are all manipulated by numbers to believe things by government who frankly talk a load of bull.LP

[steve22]

This comment is out of order but of course the police tactics and questioning are designed to elicit a quick confession and make their job easier; unfortunately many accused persons don't ask for a solicitor and this often makes the police's job even easier.

This really pushed my buttons too. The comment is uncalled for as a solicitor isnt there in the early stages to prove innocence anyway. They are there to ensure fair treatment throughout the process pre-charge and to assist the accused with answering legal questions.

I believe the procedure regarding interview tapes has changed in that they are not handed over unless a charge is brought (but as I'm presently on mobile internet cannot confirm this)

Confirmed. Annoyingly i made my slip i got yesterday from 2nd interview into a paper airplane in my cell (stupidly left my current book in the car!) so i can't be sure of this but you can also pay about £15 for an EXTRA copy. 3 Tapes should be created simultaneously anyway. 1 for court which is sealed to prevent tampering, 1 for police listening and 1 for the accused's solicitor.

[wonderwoman2012]

A tape for the accused solicitor now that is a novelty in are case. Why would the police want to give us the interview tape

I mean slip signed and handed over, charged months ago and statements finally handed over about 12 hours before the final date they could.

We have a victim statement signed (well really two because she made a second statement changing half of the first statement) but witness statements unsigned or dated

[Saffron]

Wonderwoman
I am pretty sure that the tapes HAVE to be disclosed to the defence at some point.
They may not be in the main pile of evidence that the prosecution plan to use, but they should certainly be in the Unused Bundle.
If they are not disclosed to you, your sol might be able to argue for an abuse of process.
If the CPS are not using the tapes and are reyling on transcripts of the tapes there may well be something they are trying to conceal. As the transcripts are made from the tapes, you have every right to copies of the tapes for your defence.

What does the sol say?

Oh and welcome by the way! Sorry you had to find us, but glad you did.

[myhome]

Historical abuse or rape cases are easy to get to court as need no hard evidence. After all what dna, cctv, etc evidence would there be for a 20 plus year old crime. One persons statement maybe her mate saying yes she told her back then all about it and off to court you go. The conviction rate for these cases is even higher than that of current rate for abuse or rape. I think I read that it is over 70% for historical abuse. Most of these however are then over turned on appeal because the jury heard the words child abuse and said guilty. Damage done to those accused already so to late.

My reply should probably go in a rants forum but I'm not going to apologise for it - but what you have quoted above has once again turned me to despair. My FA has accused me of a string of abuse from the age of 12 - 17, from 23 years ago. so this meets the criteria you have quoted above for "child abuse" and "historical." I'm really really struggling to hold myself together - so I'm now crying yet again. To-day a counsellor has told me I'm having out of body experiences because of the trauma of what I'm facing and your post REALLY HASN'T HELPED. I cannot see what positive you have achieved by posting this....Oh and I'm a woman!!! We get accused too.........................

[Faith]

Myhome, try not to worry about the post above. Chances are that wonderwoman has felt similar when posting as she is struggling too.
To clarify it is not true that over 70% of historical cases are convicted nor is it that most are resolved on appeal

[myhome]

Myhome, try not to worry about the post above. Chances are that wonderwoman has felt similar when posting as she is struggling too.
To clarify it is not true that over 70% of historical cases are convicted nor is it that most are resolved on appeal

Thanks Faith - I agree that there is no doubt that everyone on here is struggling (unless they've come out the other side...)
thanks for the reassurance re the figures misleadingly quoted....though they must have come from somewhere.....

[Faith]

Anyone can put up a website quoting figures hon.
Thats the danger of over-researching.

Plus, its not necessarily the case that those who have come out of the other side no longer suffer. Its one of those things that never truly leave you

Take care of yourself hon and try not to worry about something that may well never happen

[myhome]

Plus, its not necessarily the case that those who have come out of the other side no longer suffer. Its one of those things that never truly leave you

Sorry - yes absolutely right - just wasn't thinking straight....thanks as always for your kind, wise words

[Hol]

Oh dear

Sorry - yes absolutely right - just wasn't thinking straight....thanks as always for your kind, wise words

Well now I've seen how people can shout, scream and cry with each other on here. This is the good thing about everyone understanding the ups and downs of each day. Hope wonderwoman understands that every case is different and that statistics are a load of rubbish.
Myhome keep your chin up there's a way to go yet and I'm sure it's just been one of those off days.
I was told to let out silent screams and when my daughter was upset in court today, I told her to go to the toilet and scream as hard as she could without letting the sound out and she did, she felt better for it.
This is our fourth day at court and the witnesses are pathetic, lies and tears. One minute your up and then wow your knocked back down again.
Two more witnesses tomorrow and then Monday it's myself my daughter then finally my husband. This could be Wednesday before the verdict.
So drained now, but my husband has a good relationship with his barrister, so that's a good sign.
So we wait and see what tomorrow brings.
I know it's hard guys, but were all here together, stay positive and hold on.
Group hugs
Hol

[wonderwoman2012]

Sorry if upset anyone with statistics just so angry at the moment. Really don't want to upset anyone.

I just need to vent some where and when I read such things and then here about these campaigns that don't give a toss what people here are going though because not classed as victims it all makes me want to explode. I have a family and my own children to support so can't in real life.

Aware I am like a bull in a china shop at present and will try to stay in check.

When I say about men and rape, yes I am aware women are also accused of abuse. However it turns out by law you can only be charged with rape if you have a penis. As I think it is called Indecent assault if not with a penis but I could be wrong (read on cps website I think). Therefore the rape figures are just men I imaging (again could be wrong).

A couple of weeks ago I was in a crying stage. Now I am mostly very angry. The law is suppose to protect us but here we all fighting to make the truth heard.

My anger is not help with the police and cps not bothering to follow their own procedures. I know the more they muck the accused about the better our barrister will hammer them in court. However this is all happening to one of the kindest, gentlest, wonderful people I know. I would take this as my own cross anytime but I can't I have to watch him go through hell.

[wonderwoman2012]

Hol you are amazing.

How you manage to support everyone here and stay so strong is just wonderful.

Crossing everything that your jury sees what good people you are. If they see the good that is so very obvious from reading your posts that hopefully is all you both need.

Sending you love

[Hol]

Hol you are amazing.

How you manage to support everyone here and stay so strong is just wonderful.

Crossing everything that your jury sees what good people you are. If they see the good that is so very obvious from reading your posts that hopefully is all you both need.

Sending you love

Thank you so much. I know how it feels and you all came to my aid. I can't abandon anyone only try to strengthen there support
Be back tonight
Hol

[Saffron]

Wonderwoman, Hol, everyone.
We all suffer astonishing mood swings, so some of the things you will read on here will almost certainly provoke strong emotions.
For the record, I think I am right in syaing that rape is now classed as penetration, (vaginal, anal or oral) with a body part (finger, penis, etc) or an inanimate object.
Happy to be corrected though!

[wonderwoman2012]

Cps site is stillsaying this:

The elements of rape are:

(1) intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis;
(2) does not consent to the penetration, and
(3) does not reasonably believe that consents
Penetration of the mouth is included.

Charging practice

Prosecutors should specify in the indictment whether the vagina, anus or mouth was penetrated. Where penetration of more than one orifice occurs, separate counts of rape should be preferred. The Court of Appeal in R v K [2008] EWCA Crim 1923 held that where it is unclear whether penetration was of the vagina or of the anus, it is permissible to allege penetration of 'the vagina or the anus' The jury will be entitled to convict if they are sure that there was non-consensual penetration of one or the other by the defendant with his penis.


Assault by penetration

The elements of assault by penetration are:

(1)A person intentionally penetrates the vagina or anus of another person with a part of their body or anything else:
The penetration is sexual
(2)does not consent to the penetration, and
(3)does not reasonably believe that consents.
The meaning of sexual, consent, reasonable belief and the evidential and conclusive presumptions all apply to this offence.

Key points

There has to be penetration of the vagina or anus but not the mouth.
Penetration is of any part of (1's) body (e.g. finger, tongue, toe) or by anything else (e.g. bottle).
Offence can be committed by either gender
This offence should be charged where there is insufficient evidence to charge rape, for example, if the victim is unsure if penetration was by a penis or something else.