So angry and hurt

[So angry and hurt]

Thankyou so much I nearly cried when I saw a reply so soon. My son is 19 yrs old, has been accused of non consensual sex with somebody he worked with for four years . ( she is a married woman and has only been married under a year) she has already had an affair ( well one-night-stand) ( With some random man )
We have to go to crown court for prelimanary hearing. She has tried to say that she was unable to consent due to the fact that she thinks she was date raped by my son. As far as we can see from the little evidence we have seen there were no drugs in her system but the forensic says that the blood test was too late to tell She says she can only remember flash backs from that evening , I suppose that will excuse the fact that she was dirty dancing with half the men in the party with only her knickers on.

My son who is adorable ! Made a statement to the police when they arrested him it was frank and honest he told them exactly what happened and his solicitor told him he had done well to give an accurate account. As far as I can see there is only one question to answer did she consent or not , I know who I believe but how do we prove it when there were only two people in the room? We know that the reason she has scremed rape is because she knows that my son will have told people where they both work and there would have been a good chance her friends, family and husband will have found out,. Sorry I am ranting !!!

[Faith]

In short, unfortunately it can't be proven...but it doesn't have to be for the case to be won. Sex cases are different to all other criminal cases in that often it will boil down to one word versus the other.

What you need to do is have a solid defense which will undermine the accuser and show the jury that your son is less than likely to be guilty of this offence. This will involve working out a motive for the lie (be it attention, revenge, compensation, to cover up her own promiscuous behaviour...)

Any evidence that is found to support your case should be between yourselves and your solicitor only. Have you had disclosure yet? You should obtain the evidence that will be used in Crown Court.

Your main priority is to find a solicitor who specialises in contesting allegations of sexual offences. Post up your county only...and we may be able to reccommend you one...

Keep coming back for help and support. Ask away, stay calm, look after yourself...

[lawlessone2009]

Thankyou so much I nearly cried when I saw a reply so soon. Not sure who replied but we're all here to help.
My son is 19 yrs old, has been accused of non consensual sex with somebody he worked with for four years . ( she is a married woman and has only been married under a year) she has already had an affair ( well one-night-stand) ( With some random man ). He's been 'accused', that is all. By the looks of it a jury will be left to decide which could be a positive or a negative. You take your chances. If you can find proof of the 'affair' then you increase your odds dramatically!
We have to go to crown court for prelimanary hearing. Don't panic. It's merely part of the process.
She has tried to say that she was unable to consent due to the fact that she thinks she was date raped by my son. As far as we can see from the little evidence we have seen there were no drugs in her system but the forensic says that the blood test was too late to tell. Forensics are back and the lack of drugs mean the prosecution revert to saying it doesn't matter we're proceeding anyway. Your legal team can highlight the results to the jury.
She says she can only remember flash backs from that evening , I suppose that will excuse the fact that she was dirty dancing with half the men in the party with only her knickers on. Sounds to me as if she was pissed. This could be a good or bad thing depending on circumstances and obviously how your legal team present the case to the jury. Drunkness can result in automatic denial of consent but from my interpretation she'd need to be out the game completely and unable to consent. Others could clarify their interpretation of the legislation. Sounds to me as if she was drunk, let her hair down, had some sex and then decided to cry wolf.

My son who is adorable ! Made a statement to the police when they arrested him it was frank and honest he told them exactly what happened and his solicitor told him he had done well to give an accurate account. As far as I can see there is only one question to answer did she consent or not , I know who I believe but how do we prove it when there were only two people in the room? We know that the reason she has scremed rape is because she knows that my son will have told people where they both work and there would have been a good chance her friends, family and husband will have found out,. Sorry I am ranting !!! Rant away! Get it all of your chest. Honesty in the circumstances sounds like a positive. Shameful that the Police didn't listen. You need to prove NOTHING, the burden of proof is with the prosecution. You need to focus on discrediting their version of events. If her husband is any kind of husband he will find it highly questionable that his partner goes out and gets pissed (if she was) out her head and puts herself in a vulnerable situation where the potential for harm is dramatically increased. If your son had literally 'carried' her back to the room or pounced on her then I would view things differently. A married woman going back to a room with a man is soooooo highly questionable. I know that if my partner went back to any room with any man after a night out or even in general I would be asking serious questions. If she was drugged and carried then I would be vying for the blood of who ever had done it, of course.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15.....

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

Just wanted to say thanku so much to people helping and kind words, really grateful that you can take time to help I haven't really worked out the site yet so please bear with me ( I'm sooo useless with computing!!!!!!) needed to clear something up; my son went upstairs to her bedroom to ask her to come back down to party and she invited him into the bed ,also we have only seen a little of the statements so not really a clear picture of the evidence . But I don't know what they can produce ? All of the witnesses at the party have made it clear they really don't want to attend court and do they matter anyway because they weren't in the bedroom! Anyone know how long we have to wait to go to court after the preliminary hearing,?

[Faith]

Can't really advise what will be used as each case is different. Did the police take statements from these 'witnesses'?
Bear in mind that to be a witness, one doesn't have to actually see something happen, they just have to give relevant (sometimes partially!) information i.e about the accused, the accuser, the circumstances, the background...etc

You will see everything that is to be used BUT your solicitor needs to push to acquire full disclosure in decent time. A good solicitor will which is why I asked you to say your county so we could suggest one (please don't feel under pressure to do this, its entirely your choice.)

There will be an unused bundle too...this is evidence the prosecution has seen but are not using. There may well be useful evidence in there for the defense...and the CPS sometimes don't automatically hand it over...the solicitor has to nag for it...

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

Oh thanks this is all good to know, we are going to see barrister week Monday so hopefully know more then; we are local to Sussex? Must go to bed now but can't sleep much! this is having a bad effect on my son , it sounds strange but he is always in trouble with police for fighting ect and that worries me that they will make him look like a bad charicter? Police told me they can deal with up to seven of these cases a week! Something needs to be changed in the system I can't help thinking how many other poor people. are going through this and maybe they are not as strong, the policeman said the boys should take consent cards out with them as well as their condoms!

[Faith]

The prosecution may well use this as bad character...but it doesn't mean he is a rapist. All the more reason to have a good legal team behind him...it may be used as ammunition against your son and implied that he has a violent nature.

Try EBR Attridges in London...Gerry McDonald is very good and is being instructed by several of our members, one of whom got a not guilty verdict the other week.
Or, if you can afford to go private Chris Saltrese is the best option.

A search on Google will bring them both up but their contact details are in the thread on this forum entitled Reccommended Solicitors.

Ofcourse, you may wish to stick with your current barrister and solicitor...just ensure you are comfortable that they are experienced enough...and also that they are making you feel confident about their capabilities in handling the case.

[HeyYou]

My BF attended his preliminary hearing at crown court around the end of April and his trial is at the start of September, (his is a historic case made by psycho ex) so probs would be between 4-6 months, I guess it depends how busy the courts are and how soon they want to do it etc!

I know how you feel though, I'm stressed out all the time completely worried that it will only be me going back to Uni by myself in September.

And yeah I agree with Faith, make sure your barrister is experienced enough with this type of case because if its her word against his an experienced barrister could help you win.

But keep posting here for support and advice, and (try) not to stress out to much!!

[So angry and hurt]

So angry anna hurt

Thankyou ! Yes it's the waiting game that's so hard and with this hanging over our family none of us are really getting on with our lives, I keep finding myself saying"when this is over" and believe me there are plenty of things I would like to do when it is, I still can't believe that somebody could risk recking a life because of their drunken mistake , the so called victim actually had the audacity to say it might be good for my son to go to prison because he might learn a career ( if I had been raped I'm sure that wouldn't be my reasoning) I'm so sorry you are going through the same and your boyfriend is very lucky to have your support I know it will mean an awful lot to him. We haven't told everybody because in the begining we truly believed it would be chucked out, but the people that do know are really behind us and that is so comforting,I just feel very worried that when it all comes out some people might question why I haven't told them? but I suppose that there aren't many people who would shout about it.

What do they do at the pre lim? Does it sometimes get thrown out at that stage?
Also one of the witnesses is too scared to go to court, he says he will get a doctors note?
Sorry one more thing , on the cps website it says we are not allowed to discredit her in any way does that mean we can't say how she was behaving/ what she said to people and what she has done in the past? Thanks everyone

[HeyYou]

I couldn't attend it with him because I had to get a lift with my dad down to Uni because I couldn't afford the train and my bf could afford it at the time (it's £150-£200 to get to our uni from where we live) but he said basically all that happens in they say "yes we can take this case here at crown court" then they work out between them (barristers and judge etc) what day they will hold the trial at crown court and that's about it, also they requested her medical records. But it only took 10 mins in there it was the waiting for the appointment that took ages.
From what I've read on here they hardly ever get thrown out at this stage and you should just prepare yourself for trial.
You have to be tactical in the way that you discredit her, if you have any evidence of conversations or pictures that could be relevant to your case give them to the solicitor then your barrister will tactfully dicredit her. But it seems to all be the way that they word it when, your barrister asks your son questions at trial so instead of saying "she's a total ****" it would be more like "at work is she a flirt?" If that my example made any sence I'm not good at describing things I may be wrong with that though I'm just going on what my bf's barrister told him at the premlim and how he described it to me (if you ask your solicitor they will tell you more clearly then my rambling.
We have told quite a few people I guess... They even knew who accused him without us even saying who it was and no one believes it. It could be useful to tell some people though so that you can get character references from people. In our case people have been really supportive. He gets to see all the statements from the police interviews on Monday aaahhh I'm quite nervous!

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

Yep I know how you feel and it's not us on trial! Poor men (I never thought I would hear myself say that ) trouble is with all of this what about the poor women who really have been raped ,oh I have never felt so hurt in all my life. Thanks for talking and I'll be thinking of you and b/ f good luck with the statements x

[Boys don't cry]

You have to be tactical in the way that you discredit her, if you have any evidence of conversations or pictures that could be relevant to your case give them to the solicitor then your barrister will tactfully dicredit her. But it seems to all be the way that they word it when, your barrister asks your son questions at trial so instead of saying "she's a total ****" it would be more like "at work is she a flirt?" If that my example made any sence I'm not good at describing things I may be wrong with that though I'm just going on what my bf's barrister told him at the premlim and how he described it to me (if you ask your solicitor they will tell you more clearly then my rambling.
It could be useful to tell some people though so that you can get character references from people. In our case people have been really supportive.

@HeyYou
Your post make sense,you know I wouldn't do better.
It is exactly what happened.
The role of the barrister, because the accusator goes first, is to discredit her in the eyes of the jury by giving evidence.
And finally convince them of what really happened.
My barrister's rhetoric was exceptional with a calm voice and 40 years experience made the difference.


@So angry and hurt

Hello and sorry for you (and your son) to be here.
As HeyYou wrote,you must find as much evidence as you can and don't worry too much about the witness who can't go.
Your son's barrister will read the statement from this person.
And no,even if everyone knows this woman is a...They cannot mention it like in the Jeremy Kile show.
I am sure that this woman wanted to have fun and tought she was Madonna with a toyboy but unfortunately
she realised she made a mistake by cheating on her husband and to protect herself from your son to talk to anyone she cried for rape.

It will be negative against her that she was cheating(if you can prove that is was not the first time it would be even better).
It is true that there was noone else in the bedroom,this is why it is only your son's words against hers.
I hope that your son have a good barrister and that he gave your solicitors as many details as possible towards his defence.
The jury must be 100% sure so the more evidence to discredit her the better

Take care.

[Rights Fighter]

Witnesses outside of the room could be vital as they could see whether she was in such a way that she could not have consented or if she appeared to be perfectly well and together.

Witnesses can be subpoenaed if necessary. Have the police talked to any of those present at the party?

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

" rights fighter " yes they have taken statements from most of the people at the party but not all, and their statements vary but they all agree she was drunk I need to be careful there is more but I don't think I should write it ,if you know what I mean . I have been through the statements that we have already and there are a few points that stick out, still feels like a lottery to me if it's just boils down to her word or my sons.
I worry because my son is a lovely looking lad and he is quite stocky build, I remarked to one of the policemen that he wouldn't have a chance if it goes to a jury because he looks like a law breaker and she looks like an up together young lady,who will play the innocent victim ... The policeman replied that his sons too looked like my son and that they were in the royal marines and hadn't broken the law in their lives, he said that jury's were very good at seeing through people and that I shouldn't worry . Easy for him although I must say that all the police treated us very respectfully at all times

[Rights Fighter]

..........but they all agree she was drunk.........

There's drunk and being up for a good time (dancing on the tables good time etc) or there's drunk - falling over and almost out of it drunk.

If this was date-rape drug she would have been almost out of it - not dancing.....If this goes to charge find a solicitor who will instruct an expert in these matter......