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**kiakaha** · 11 May 2012, 09:03 PM

Unfortunately I don't know much about this area but am sure some of the senior members and moderators, and people who have been where you are will help. I would think though that if you have gone with a team recommended here or by faso, and you feel confident with them then your 'gut' feeling will likely be right! I would doubt a solicitor could claim a barristor had never lost a case if that were untrue after all they are YOUR defence and professionals.

Be patient. Someone will be along to help soon I am sure.

**largactyl1** · 11 May 2012, 10:46 PM

Hi there, just wanted to welcome you to the site. People with the knowledge to answer your queries will be along at some point.
Kind Regards
Jen

**lawlessone2009** · 12 May 2012, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by frightened View Post

Hi all,

I've been following a few posts on this for quite some time now and felt great comfort in seeing I've somewhere to look for support. My trial begins in a few weeks and I would just like some advice from you guys if that's OK?

1) Should I believe my solicitor when they tell me my barrister is one of the best, has never lost a case (i.e.: excellent track record)? I've met this barrister twice and have got a quite professional impression and was happy with the defence statement that was drafted. I'm just scared to trust in the nasty world that is lawyers. However upon googling the name, I have been positively impressed by some of the cases my barrister has won (prosecuting) in the past.

Yes. Have complete faith in your solicitor/barrister. They're the guys that are going to be doing the fighting on your behalf. Share everything you can with them and make sure they answer all your questions/worries. A barrister that has worked both sides (defence and prosecutor) is the absolute best possible person you can have for giving out advice. They're not known for bull***tting.

2) Should I believe my solicitor and barrister when they tell me that the prosecution have a weak case and that I would be very unlucky to be convicted? They have kept re-iterating that they hope the prosecution will drop the case coming up to the trial and have said recently over the telephone they are very surprised it has come as far as it has.

If they believe that there is a weak case then listen to them. Even weak cases result in successful prosecutions so do not take anything for granted and ensure you have the best possible chance of a successful defence. Cases make it into court where there really isn't a case at all, just your Donald Duck.

3) I found the girl that is making this accusation (it was a one night stand) on Facebook and surprisingly she made her profile very public to people she isn't friends with. She uploaded pictures of the party on the night she claims she was "raped", pictures of her partying (only days after the arrest, interrogation, etc.) and just general pictures of her drinking, partying and photographs & comments with sexual innuendos in the weeks and months after the alleged crime took place. I took screenshots of these and burned them onto discs for my solicitor. Do you believe these will be useful? (If she claims she was traumatised for example, and just to prove in general that this allegation is rubbish and has affected nobody but me and my family)

Have you shared this with your legal team?

4) At both hearings I have had so far (incl. Plea and case management) both judges respectively told the prosecution to carefully weigh up the evidence that they are gathering for this case. My solicitor confirmed this is good news. i.e.: it's a major uphill struggle for the prosecution. How serious should I take these judge's comments or are they standard?

Judges don't bullsh*t. It's not in their interests too. If they are advising the prosecution on the case at an early time then there could potentially be issues for them at trial. It can ONLY be good news.

5) Based on the above and from your own experiences and knowledge, is it possible for judges to still throw a case out on the day of trial (due to lack of evidence for example)? I asked my solicitor this and they said that it has happened in the past but obviously anything can happen. Is it just up to the judge? Do the jury just get sent home in that case before anything even begins? Or am I wasting my time and should just face facts that when the trial date arrives there will be a full trial?

The prosecution would normally 'desert' the case or your solicitor/barrister would advise on 'no case to answer'. The case could go through the entire trial process and be dropped before the jury return a verdict as far as I am led to believe. Again, nothing is certain and if the prosecution think they have a chance they will continue until it is clear that they don't.

6) My trial has been set as a three day trial? Should I take this for granted as I need to book trains and accommodation etc. soon? Or do these cases tend to prolong?

Three days sounds about average to me. I'm not too experienced with the entire timings but others on here generally indicate 3-5 days. It could be shorter or could be longer. I'd book the 3 days at moment and if all goes well you can always change travel arrangements.

7) Are the prosecution witnesses required to turn up? Or could they chicken out on the day and decide they don't want to put themselves through it? Again I'm basing this on the Facebook evidence I've seen - it looks like she doesn't give a s***. My solicitor wasn't clear over the phone on this the last time I asked. They said they are requested to, but don't have to if they don't want to.

It's a strange issue this. Apparently they don't need to be there but I would reckon that prior notice of non-attendance and approval by the court would be required. I would push your solicitor on this for a definitive answer as I can't commit to giving a 100% correct answer and have in fact been pulled up before for being mis-guided in this area.

Sorry for the big essay, just a lot of question marks and a lot of worrying. Thanks in advance and good luck to every single one of you

It's not that big and essay.......

andhdhgiosdhslkans

**frightened** · 12 May 2012, 01:00 AM

Thanks so much. Me and the legal team are taking this very serious, despite it being a "weak case".

And yes I have informed my legal team of the Facebook evidence (after they had already dubbed it a "weak case"). I printed out about 50-60 pictures in total and posted those to them last month. I rang a few days ago and they said they had forwarded it on to my representing barrister. My barrister is tied up with a couple of cases at the moment they said, and they have yet to receive direct feedback on it. They told me social network evidence can be used in court but I get the impression they'd rather hear it from the horses mouth first regarding this case instead of giving me false hope.

I presume though that it is significant enough? I mean if you claim you were "raped", you wouldn't post pictures of the party in question (booze, posing, etc) up only hours after the initial police interview? And in the subsequent days, weeks and months more and more pics of party, sexual comments/poses/innuendos, booze and what not...

It probably depends case by case but can't see why it wouldn't be admitted into court because some pictures relate to the night in question, while the others pretty much prove a lack of trauma.

Are written character witnesses only used in the event of a conviction? My barrister asked me for these, which I have of course supplied. I just wonder if they could be used during the trial also?

**Faith** · 12 May 2012, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by frightened View Post

Hi all,

I've been following a few posts on this for quite some time now and felt great comfort in seeing I've somewhere to look for support. My trial begins in a few weeks and I would just like some advice from you guys if that's OK?

1) Should I believe my solicitor when they tell me my barrister is one of the best, has never lost a case (i.e.: excellent track record)? I've met this barrister twice and have got a quite professional impression and was happy with the defence statement that was drafted. I'm just scared to trust in the nasty world that is lawyers. However upon googling the name, I have been positively impressed by some of the cases my barrister has won (prosecuting) in the past.

I would believe your solicitor. If you had any doubts over whether to believe them then I would argue that they shouldn't be your legal team. these people have your life in their hands. If it is on the web and plain to see that they have won similar cases and have a good track record, then it sounds as if they should be OK. Most important is your own impression. You will know if you have faith in them. trust your own instincts.

2) Should I believe my solicitor and barrister when they tell me that the prosecution have a weak case and that I would be very unlucky to be convicted? They have kept re-iterating that they hope the prosecution will drop the case coming up to the trial and have said recently over the telephone they are very surprised it has come as far as it has.

Believe them when they say that they think it is a weak case but remember this is just an opinion. Take nothing for granted. Nothing is guaranteed so you can't afford to become complacent at this stage. Take some comfort in your legal team's confidence...but remember that at the end of the day, the decision rests with a jury of 12 strangers.

3) I found the girl that is making this accusation (it was a one night stand) on Facebook and surprisingly she made her profile very public to people she isn't friends with. She uploaded pictures of the party on the night she claims she was "raped", pictures of her partying (only days after the arrest, interrogation, etc.) and just general pictures of her drinking, partying and photographs & comments with sexual innuendos in the weeks and months after the alleged crime took place. I took screenshots of these and burned them onto discs for my solicitor. Do you believe these will be useful? (If she claims she was traumatised for example, and just to prove in general that this allegation is rubbish and has affected nobody but me and my family)

This is all relevant stuff, particularly on the night of the rape, particularly if the times stated clash with when the photos were taken. However, be prepared for the reply that she was too traumatised to remember times etc. It is good that you got this evidence in now. if the worst were to happen, then it'd be no use for an appeal as it is available now.

4) At both hearings I have had so far (incl. Plea and case management) both judges respectively told the prosecution to carefully weigh up the evidence that they are gathering for this case. My solicitor confirmed this is good news. i.e.: it's a major uphill struggle for the prosecution. How serious should I take these judge's comments or are they standard?

Judges will often advise the prosecution to take care. Often they get annoyed at flimsy cases as it is becoming quite common for cases being put through that never should have reached charge. I is good that you have judges who are on the ball. It may make prosecution think twice about what they are submitting and how they are building their case. However, it is fairly normal for judges to issue warnings to the CPS to conduct the case properly, submit all evidence etc.

5) Based on the above and from your own experiences and knowledge, is it possible for judges to still throw a case out on the day of trial (due to lack of evidence for example)? I asked my solicitor this and they said that it has happened in the past but obviously anything can happen. Is it just up to the judge? Do the jury just get sent home in that case before anything even begins? Or am I wasting my time and should just face facts that when the trial date arrives there will be a full trial?

A judge can throw a case out at any point, right up to the verdict, for a number of reasons. it is fairly rare, so dont bank on it, but it has happened.

6) My trial has been set as a three day trial? Should I take this for granted as I need to book trains and accommodation etc. soon? Or do these cases tend to prolong?

I would take this as a given...be prepared to have to take a nasty bag on the day of the verdict just in case something goes wrong...

7) Are the prosecution witnesses required to turn up? Or could they chicken out on the day and decide they don't want to put themselves through it? Again I'm basing this on the Facebook evidence I've seen - it looks like she doesn't give a s***. My solicitor wasn't clear over the phone on this the last time I asked. They said they are requested to, but don't have to if they don't want to.

They can be formally requested to turn up. Sometimes this happens, sometimes it doesn't. Generally, those who are vulnerable, (ie those claiming they have been raped) probably won't be forced to turn up but the pressure on them to do so will be high enough.

Sorry for the big essay, just a lot of question marks and a lot of worrying. Thanks in advance and good luck to every single one of you

Questions have been answered in bold.

**Faith** · 12 May 2012, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by frightened View Post

It probably depends case by case but can't see why it wouldn't be admitted into court because some pictures relate to the night in question, while the others pretty much prove a lack of trauma.

Or prove that she was so traumatised that she had to go out and get drunk. This is the angle the prosecution will likely take.

As for the character witnesses, these tend to be used after sentencing to try and appeal for a lesser sentence. However, in some circumstances, they will be used in trial if they are considered evidence. For example, if the assault happened in a work place and the complainant said that you were always violent at work, your boss might submit a character reference that said you were always calm at work.

**Rights Fighter** · 12 May 2012, 02:28 PM

Are written character witnesses only used in the event of a conviction? My barrister asked me for these, which I have of course supplied. I just wonder if they could be used during the trial also?

It helps to have character witnesses giving evidence as well, on your behalf. If you do not then that would leave the Crown open in closing speeches to say:

"Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this defendant says he is of good character. Where are his friends? Why are they not here to confirm that they know him very well and that they think highly of him? We say, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that this is because he has no support, no friends - in fact he is totally on his own".

Always best to prove to the jury you are not fighting this on your own.

**lawlessone2009** · 12 May 2012, 10:34 PM

Rights Fighter... I get what you're saying and respect your never ending knowledge but I would question how many people manage to share their information (the charges) with anyone other than their very very closest inner circle.

People accused of rape normally drop friends quicker than a piece of glass breaks. I let the cat out the bag to my fiancees brother/wife and was pretty violently assaulted as a result. The accusation of rape still sends shivers up peoples backs and the mere accusation is all it takes for people to regard you as good as guilty.

I am by no means relating my incident to the OPs or trying to cast doubt on your expert and correct advice I'm just sharing my experience in case others read this thread and think it is a good idea to gather up character witnesses but it all goes terribly wrong and results in harm.......

The only possible character witnesses I could muster are my fiancee, mum/dad and brother. That ain't going to go down well with a jury as all will be clearly biased. I have plenty of friends but none that know or I would ask to support me for fear or reprisals or rejection within my community.

**Rights Fighter** · 13 May 2012, 09:15 AM

I am really sorry that happened with you Lawlessone.

I have attended trials where there have been several written character references and also where such people have given evidence. I suppose it differs from person/case to /person/case.

Obviously it doesn't mean that the jury will take any notice but you have to do what you can. One trial I attended in May 2007 (the week Maddie McCann went missing) the defendant had written and oral character references.

Because Maddie McCann went missing he was convicted as the jury could not have failed to have been swayed by the massive media publicity that was raging at the time. The barrister brought out all the lies and inconsistencies even to the point where the accuser said after being asked one question: "I can't remember what my mum told me to say".

The public gallery was filled with his supporters yet the pillock for the Crown still tried to persuade the jury that he had no friends, no supporters, hadn't had a girlfriend for two years (which of COURSE means he would go looking for a child to assault and not a grown woman - their faulty and clearly disgusting logic defies belief).

Unfortunately not a ground for appeal - BUT - if such references and oral evidence is given and the judge fails to give a proper Good Character direction then the convictions, in some circumstances, will be quashed. This is in England and Wales anyway - not sure about Scotland.

If at all possible it is best to cover all angles so that if conviction occurs there might be grounds for appeal afterwards.

I was so sorry to read that you had been assaulted. Some people are mindless idiots who think with their fists first and then ask questions later.

**Faith** · 13 May 2012, 10:17 AM

That's the thing Lawlessone, every case is different.
I believe that the character references submitted by my solicitor to police helped to get my NFA. but in other people's cases this won't work at all.

It is the same at trial. I think the point is, where it is possible, every avenue should be explored in building a defense. If the person has people willing to act as character witnesses then they should most definitely utilise this.
However, there are people who have closed minds and it can be very unpleasant, as you are very much now aware, to discover that some reactions aren't what you hoped for.
Sorry that you had to experience that lawlessone.

But it shouldn't put you off (or anyone else in the situation) in submitting character support should the means become available.

**lawlessone2009** · 13 May 2012, 12:54 PM

I'm not going to war with you two...

Not again!

I suppose what I was really trying to highlight was:

Be careful who you confide in... (ask to be a character witness as they may turn on you)

Got it out in a few words instead of the masses I put up before. You've also both expanded on the legal side with some proper reasoning rather than me jumping in with all the scare mongering and no substance.

**Faith** · 13 May 2012, 06:17 PM

I wasn't actually disagreeing with you...

I quite agree that a person should take care who they can confide in and that person alone can be the only person to judge who would be safe to tell.

However, if the means are available and there are trustworthy friends and relatives willing to help then character witnesses and statements can sometimes help

**daki** · 14 May 2012, 05:52 AM

I would take it with a pinch of salt mate my first solicitor told me in 25yrs he had not lost last minute he said plead guilty so unless this is Chris Saltrese I would fear the worst still mate

**frightened** · 19 June 2012, 07:41 PM

Not guilty

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you know I was found not guilty yesterday. It was the happiest/saddest moment of my life, words couldn't describe it. Total elation! It took the jury under one hour to see how much of a bulls*** case this was.

I just want to thank everyone for the support this website has given me. Don't ever give up hope! Never ever! Gather as much as you can about your false accuser - alibi, Facebook / Twitter screenshots, etc. Everything is useful. Don't assume your solicitor will do the research work for you, do your own research into the person and pass it on to your solicitor and only your solicitor.

Use calming tablets or rescue remedy in the lead up and during the trial. It helped me get some well needed sleep at night and prevented me having a nervous breakdown.

A guy on the jury nodded at me before the verdict was read out to let me know everything is ok, but I needed to hear it myself before I could believe it of course. And when I was having a drink in a bar afterwards with family, low and behold that very same man was sitting in the bar and came over to shake my hand. He informed me how they could see through all the bulls*** and how everyone believed me as soon as I gave evidence.

Gather written character references. My barrister used them during the defence evidence, they are NOT just for a lesser sentence in the event of a conviction. The judge even informed the jury that they can let the excellent character references help influence their judgement of if I am telling the truth or not. Gather references from previous employers, teachers, academics, friends, family. The more the better. Some people who gave me character references didn't address the charge because I did not want to inform them what I really needed them for (for obvious reasons). And they were still used.

That's all the advice I can give you guys. There is hope, and there is a God. Thank you for all your help again! Best of luck to all of you!!!

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