Accused of Rape - Date Rape as some say.

[123]

Largacty

Please dont be upset - Look at post 44 and 45 - they are the same - it appears that 45 is the same as 44 and is from me.

I did not intend that do not know how it happened

Please would some one remove it.

[Saffron]

Done.........! Damn, message too short. wibble wibble.

[123]

Thanks Safron.

On another note

However the fact that your bail time was so short (I have never heard of a 2-week followed by a further 2-week bail!) I suspect that there was something profoundly wrong with her initial statement.

First bail was only 11 days (25 Dec to 5 Jan) then extended to 20 Jan (today)

Am I right in thinking that the she made a mess of this and was not believed from the word go ??

Her first lie would have been that she had not been drinking - She drunk enough for it to be obvious she was drunk

Perverting the course of Justice ?????

[Rights Fighter]

What????? I was quoting from a previous post, clearly got the quotation bit wrong when I edited it. I'm genuinely perplexed and upset by your response, I was congratulating you on having things look up for you, but pointing out that victims of rape often freeze.
This is so weird.

Largactyl this is true. Victims of rape respond differently. Some just lie there hoping it will soon be over and believing that if they struggle they will also be murdered.

Pretending to be sober when they are drunk is not exactly perverting the course of justice is it? It's about lying to make themselves look better than they are.


I am not sure why 123 feels he has to type whole posts in bold.

[Saffron]

Possibly.
You could make a formal complaint to the police. She made a malicious allegation with the intention of PCOJ - that is a crime.
Typically the police are not overly interested in pursuing these sorts of crimes as they are deemed to not be in the public interest. However if there is something glaringly wrong they will sometimes move on it.

From what you say, she was alleging that the "rape" was violent, and that she tried to fight you off. However, as Jen pointed out, many genuine survivors actually just freeze during the attack. The reasons for this are various - firstly they can't quite believe what is happening and are so shocked that they literally don't know what to do. Secondly, they are afraid that if they fight back they will be hurt more. And finally, they believe that if they let the attacker get what he/she wants it will be over more quickly.

A liar will typically say that the rape was violent. This gives them more kudos as a victim and as I have said before, Victim Status is very powerful for attracting attention and garnering sympathy and admiration - "oh, you're so brave!"

It would be useful if you could see her statement and know eactly what she was alleging. I'm afraid that I don't know whether you can do this.

It could also be worth asking the police to "No Crime" the matter, rather than NFA it. An NFA does not mean that the police/CPS believe you are innocent, merely that there is not enough evidence to proceed with charges. Pursuing her for PCOJ will be almost impossible unless the case is No Crimed.

[Rights Fighter]

For somebody to be done for PCJ it has to be rather more than pretending to be sober when they are drunk.

[123]

Possibly.
You could make a formal complaint to the police. She made a malicious allegation with the intention of PCOJ - that is a crime.

From what you say, she was alleging that the "rape" was violent, and that she tried to fight you off.

He Pinned me down and I said "what are you doing" I tried to fight him off / push him away.

A liar will typically say that the rape was violent. This gives them more kudos as a victim

It would be useful if you could see her statement and know eactly what she was alleging. I'm afraid that I don't know whether you can do this.

I would love to see her statement(s) - Can this be achieved ??

It could also be worth asking the police to "No Crime" the matter, rather than NFA it. Pursuing her for PCOJ will be almost impossible unless the case is No Crimed.

"Pretending to be sober when they are drunk is not exactly perverting the course of justice is it?"

NO Rights Fighter alone it would not. What I said was:

"Her first lie would have been that she had not been drinking". - Ok let us not put too much empasis on that, except to say that it was a LIE to the POLICE and or a MEDICAL Examiner, Proffessionals in an official capacity, on duty, possibly in uniform, possibly within an official Govt building
- then there were more lies:

She lied about where she sat - Fingerprint evidence proves that

She lied about the struggle that never took place - Police actions make it very likely that she says she scratched my back - Medical & Photographic Evidence !

She said she was drinking coffee - She lied - Fingerprint evidence proves that

She lied when she said I pinned her down - She Lied - Medical evidence

She lied when she said that I had sex with her without her consent - Medical Evidence

She lied when she went to the police and said she had been raped. - Her statement

She lied when she gave my name as the Rapist - Her statement

All these lies were told to the Police with the knowledge and intention of causing me to be arrested / detained for an offence that carries a maximum sentence of LIFE !!!

[fighter]

I think to be done for perverting the court of justice, as seen in some news, the police should have spent a lot of their time on it and the case has to have gone to court again wasting more of tax payers money and had cause a lot of pain to the accuser. Most importantly, the false accuser admit to why she was motivated to do the allegations. I must be wrong! But that is what I observed in these cases; girls got punished especially if it gone on for long and it went to court and the judge wipe the the floor out with them!

[Rights Fighter]

I think to be done for perverting the court of justice, as seen in some news, the police should have spent a lot of their time on it and the case has to have gone to court again wasting more of tax payers money and had cause a lot of pain to the accuser. Most importantly, the false accuser admit to why she was motivated to do the allegations. I must be wrong! But that is what I observed in these cases; girls got punished especially if it gone on for long and it went to court and the judge wipe the the floor out with them!

Correct Fighter.

Plus telling the sort of lies as outlined by 123 will not result in PCJ. That is circumstantial and not much else.

I know too may people who have proved similar lies have been told to the police by their accuser and it has fallen on deaf ears. Plus of course:

She lied about where she sat - Fingerprint evidence proves that

- all that proves is that no fingerprints were found where she said she was - and why would they be if this was on a sofa (unless leather or similar) - and even then it is not conclusive.

She lied about the struggle that never took place - Police actions make it very likely that she says she scratched my back - Medical & Photographic Evidence !

You said: "Police actions make it very likely that she says she scratched my back" -not sure what you mean by "police actions" but "very likely" is not conclusive evidence.

She said she was drinking coffee - She lied - Fingerprint evidence proves that

It proves that no fingerprints showed up on the cup - it doesn't prove she didn't have a coffee. Who is to say you did not wash up afterwards?

I am amazed that the police carried out all this "fingerprinting" in any event. In sex cases generally they tend to be interested in DNA semen and saliva - not fingerprints.

She lied when she said I pinned her down - She Lied - Medical evidence

Medical evidence cannot prove she was not held down. People do not always sustain bruising when held down, if that is what you allude to as "medical evidence".

She lied when she said that I had sex with her without her consent - Medical Evidence

How can medical evidence prove lack of consent? It cannot - that is why these cases are difficult to defend when the accused is innocent.

She lied when she went to the police and said she had been raped. - Her statement

and

She lied when she gave my name as the Rapist - Her statement

As we all know people lie when making statements - these are rarely prosecuted for PCJ on that. In 99% of cases an admission of guilt might result in PCJ prosecution - not solely on the basis of lying in a statement.


I sincerely hope you get her done for PCJ but please do not rely on what guidelines or "the law" says. Too many people have passed through these pages saying the same thing as you and then been horribly let down.

Hopefully the police have something else to attempt a prosecution for PCJ - it seems they may have because 2 weeks bail followed by NFA is extraordinary so there may well be something you do not know about.........

[123]

NFA to NC - PCOJ

Yes, and some of them have done it more that once. It all depends if they can or are bothered to get enough evidence. It seems that it is not looked at often.

Listening to Safron, my first actions have to be to

1. To see if I can get the case notes from the cps/police - Freedom of information maybe ???
2. To see if I can get this from NFA to NC

Then see if this can be pursued to PCOJ

Any help and guidance on the above will be appreciated.

Here is a snippet from the CPS website.

The Offence

3. Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence. It can only be tried on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence is committed where a person:
does an act (a positive act or series of acts is required; mere inaction is insufficient)
which has a tendency to pervert and
which is intended to pervert
the course of public justice.

4. The course of justice includes the police investigation of a possible crime (it is not necessary for legal proceedings to have begun). A false allegation which risks the arrest or wrongful conviction of an innocent person is enough. The word pervert can mean 'alter' but the behaviour does not have to go that far - any act that interferes with an investigation or causes it to head in the wrong direction may tend to pervert the course of justice. All the prosecution needs to prove is that there is a possibility that what the suspect has done "without more" might lead to a wrongful consequence, such as the arrest of an innocent person (Murray (1982) 75 Cr. App. R. 58).


From here http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/p...v_allegations/

[Casehardened]

Hi,

I think you're understandably angry at what has happened to you; and you want to lash out (even to having a pop at members who are offering advice)

Not saying you should just roll over but remember that revenge is a dish best served cold

[123]

I sincerely hope you get her done for PCJ but please do not rely on what guidelines or "the law" says. Too many people have passed through these pages saying the same thing as you and then been horribly let down.

Hopefully the police have something else to attempt a prosecution for PCJ - it seems they may have because 2 weeks bail followed by NFA is extraordinary so there may well be something you do not know about.........

Rights Fighter
So Sorry - I am letting emotions get in the way here. Start again!

Getting her done for PCJ or not will not be a great let down but a great bonus - that is the way I need to look at it.

Your experience, knowledge and wisdom is shining through here, maybe I am over analysing because I dont know what happens in these cases. I was first released on 11 days unrestricted bail - to me that was normal for me, i thought they got me, they got the girl, they have taken the evidence and in that time the put the case together and make a decision.

I thought it was more than 1 week because of the xmas, new year hols. I now learn different, what is the average time for initial bail in these cases?

So indeed "11 days bail followed by NFA is extraordinary so there may well be something you do not know about" - In this case will I ever get to know if they are pursueing this or not ???

Back to topic, I would appreciate advice and guidance on taking this from NFA to NC and getting it removed from PNC


Casehardned

"Not saying you should just roll over but remember that revenge is a dish best served cold" - Indeed it is the only way to serve it, and yes I take your point. With you help I can hatch a plan of action


thanks

[Rights Fighter]

Getting her done for PCJ or not will not be a great let down but a great bonus - that is the way I need to look at it.

I mean that many have attempted to get their false accuser prosecuted for PCJ and have been greatly let down (by the system) because when they listed all the provable lies to the police the liars were still not prosecuted. These prosecutions are rare.

I can't go into any in-depth advice as I am currently working on appeals against conviction and have a defendant coming to see me tomorrow with regards to his upcoming trial so very busy. Ask your solicitor and see if they can make enquires to CPS.

[fighter]

there is no average time for bail but you could see from the threads you have one of the shortest and that is a bonus. Some people get NFA after 10 or even 18 months. There are people in this forum who would be so happy to get off it at the shortest period of time, without them losing their jobs,suspended from their jobs or losing their kids and being harassed by the community gossipers.

It is okay to be angry; but dont waste time looking after what you could do to that girl. Your greatest revenge is you didn't lose your freedom and you can move on with life now. And concentrate on changing NFA to NC; thats the most important thing. People have endured more than what you did (not underestimating yours) but they couldn't even get their accuser for PCJ so how can you achieve that for your accuser? Some even get to learn about those false accusers getting compensation for their lies.

[hurley11]

When i got NFa'd, i spoke to the OIC several times about the mess my CRB was in now and that because of the accusations my career is in ruins.

Indeed, even my line manager said to me in my back to work interview (after 3 mths suspension) that if someone was to come to him with a CRB like mine, that he wouldn't employ me.
It is only because of the employment laws that i kept my job.
If and when I leave my current job, i feel i will be unemployabe.. lucky to pluck chickens.

My NFA meant that the police could not find enough evidence for the CPS to go ahead and take it to court.
There simply was too many inconsistences and not enough evidence to convict me.

I asked the OIC if i could get this mess NC, he said no, as what NFA really meant was that the case was still open, and if any other evidence came up in the future i could be charged!

I STILL feel like a criminal, I HAVE changed, I AM bitter, I DO WANT revenge.
I WANT to move on but it's HARD.

Our accusers have to live with what they've done, but it isn't a patch on what they've done to us.

Yes, i want revenge, i feel i need it.
Does that make me a bad person or just human?