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**lawlessone2009** · 4 January 2012, 08:24 PM

You only need to watch online poker late at night to know that the best way to defeat an opponent is by playing the bluff card and watching them crumble before your eyes even though, technically, they have the better hand...

Pleading guilty early on gets a nice big discount as it's showing clearly you accept your guilt and are willing to deal with the consequences.

Pleading guilty late means you are merely accepting guilt as it suits YOUR position.

The plea bargain will always be put out there as it saves effort. makes things easier and weeds out guilty people who may otherwise have gotten away with their crimes.

Trial by jury is the best chance you have of being found not guilty. You only need to look at the cattle markets in the lower courts where judges regularly find people guilty simply because they have the wrong tie on or appear to have an attitude, for instance. Trial by jury takes the power from the state and puts it in the hands of a select few independent judges (the jury) who don't have an agenda or targets to meet and for all intended purposes are 'naive and innocent' just like the many people that appear before them as the accused.

**Nooney** · 5 January 2012, 12:14 AM

hi

lawlessone yes she is being called as a witness so isnt that great.. think my dads mind is made and i agree with him and support him i even agree its the best out come and would do the same..

there was a comment before from a farther in the same sitution i dont know your name (sorry) but stay strong!! and make your own mind up and im sorry you have to go through this but when you say you know you would rather face the firing line when it comes to a guilty plea or go through with the full thing you may change your mind mate its very tough and you have to weigh up your best options an you need concrete evidence of where you was when these crimes were made sorry mate i wish you all the best ;(

**gem** · 5 January 2012, 09:30 AM

nooney
does that mean your dad is going to plead guilty.my son got offered the deal as i explained in my other post. as did most of the people on here. we know it is tough believe me but does he realize the outcome of his living without his son in the family home if he does plead guilty social services will be down on him like a ton of bricks as he will be required to sign the sex offenders register on his release and all the rigmarole of them checking his every movement and never any chance to clear his name .....sorry i had to tell you again, i feel for you and your family please talk to someone about what will happen when he is released so you are fully aware of the consequences before he pleads guilty .......

**lawlessone2009** · 5 January 2012, 10:55 AM

They must be desperate to call a witness to an incident that happened 40 years ago!

I would strongly advise against a guilty plea. In the face of 'experts' (solicitors/barristers/the CPS) it may seem that pleading guilty is the ONLY way but trust me, it is not.

Your father is at such a late stage now that discounts are limited. The only thing he is doing is allowing the prosecution a free ride at his expense.

Unless there are details that you haven't shared with us I would say he is making a mistake, one which cannot be reversed once he enters his guilty plea.

Even if after a long trial he is found guilty at least he can spend his years in prison focusing on appeals to pass his time. With a guilty plea he's not going to have that luxury, he will do HARD time with no possibility of ever being found innocent even if it was on a technicality, should one be discovered.

**Nooney** · 5 January 2012, 05:13 PM

Hi people sorry about the lack of replies but its been a stressfull night and alot of thinking had to be done..

he layed his options on the table which were fight and maybe lose and get 12years maybe + so thats spend 6 maybe more years away from my little brother miss him growing up, not see the family for x amount of years

or plead guilty and do 3years when he gets realise my lil bro will still only be 14 if there is no option for my dad to stay in the family home till he is 16 then he will just have to remain with me till that age

we sat down as a family my dads mum,dad,me we told him we stand by him regardless of the choice he makes but he has to weigh up the options and odds he chose to plead guilty we have all shed tears its been very stressfull & hard its especially going to be hard on my little brother but!! we aint the first to go through this and wont be the last end of the day at least hes still alive..

My dad has been granted bail till 17th feb so that gives him time to prepare my little brother & my options for what will be the best for all of us. My little brother has been aware of the sitution for the last two years so it aint a total shock.

I know its going to be a tough dicision for any one to make and I hope you all make the right one im intrested to see if any one that is saying dont take it does take it when it comes to the crunch because its a different game when its offered and thats all it is to these people a game..

Well its going to be a intresting few months what a way to start the year but at the end of the day things can only start getting better life can move forward its been tough and id wish this on no one but its just part of life..

good things come to those who wait so ive just gotta keep on waiting

does any one know of the package as its been put as in the past that they will make for my little brother?? ie will be offered a house?? because i could do with a blank new canvas to work with? also because of the turmoil that hes been through do they offer more than usual child benifits?? I ask this because im currently in full time work but with the school run and doing whats best for my lil bro i aint sure work will let me change hours i just dont know what my options are at the mo

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT!! I HOPE YOU ALL COME OUT BETTER THAN WE

**RFLH** · 5 January 2012, 05:18 PM

If you're looking after him then you may get Working Tax Credits. Have a look at http://www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx

I'm sorry that he's had to make the choice as he will be admitting to something he hasn't done and will never be able to clear his name. But I can see why he's done it.

**fighter** · 5 January 2012, 05:29 PM

Sorry to hear about the decision nooney. But it is good that you are being supportive of his decision I guess; instead of going against him or it would just add another stress to him. That is why people who falsely accused somebody should be treated us a criminal, worse than other criminals; somehow even worse than thieves who can only rob you of your possessions but not your life and freedom. It makes me so sad that people are even pushed to plead guilty because the number of years does really matter. Wishing your dad all the best that he really gets a shorter sentence!

**gem** · 5 January 2012, 08:19 PM

hi nooney
if your dad took his chances at the trial he should get 7 years if found guilty. and he will do half of that which is 3/12 years . where did they get this 12 years from.
that is why i am asking you to take further advice i don.t think they are being truthful to your dad. and he has a chance of being cleared if he goes to trial .also i think you need to read up on what restrictions your dad will have against him when he signs the sex offenders register for life. if he does go for the guilty lesser charge.

**largactyl1** · 5 January 2012, 09:46 PM

Hi there, so sorry that you are going through this horrible time.

If your Dad pleads guilty to a crime he has not committed, despite maybe doing it because he has been frightened by the possible length of sentence, he will have to sign the SOR - prob for life. This will restrict him with regards to your young brother.

I would also fear that the stigma of having a convicted sex offender for a father could have grave implications for all of you siblings.

I can see you are resigned to his fate but it just feels wrong for someone to admit to something if they did not do it.

Kind regards to you - you are being very brave.
Jen

**lawlessone2009** · 5 January 2012, 10:02 PM

Jeez.

It's a hard decision to make and I have seen quite a few innocent people making the same decision and accepting a 'deal'.

These kind of situations generally arise when there is a possibility of a failed trial. A 'deal' wouldn't be offered if it was 100% certain a conviction would be achieved. Saying that, a deal is something that saves money and time for a lot of folks so it may not be as one sided as I have put it of course. I'm not one sided, honest.....

I suppose the thing now is probably to get outside help from someone experienced in the situation that you and your bro will find yourselves in. It's not an area where I have much experience at all, others on here might. The one thing I would highly recommend is limiting the states (social workers etc) involvement in your lives as this could cause further damage. It may be worth visiting your local citizens advice centre (if you can get an appointment!) as a lot of very experienced people work there.

I know you may never ever talk to the woman again but the one thing I would recommend is that she claims the compensation that is on the table. At least someone will get something out of the situation then. Sick I know but thought I really should mention it. I would also push her to at least provide some money for your bro as it's him that's going to really suffer, being so young.

**Casehardened** · 5 January 2012, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Nooney View Post

he chose to plead guilty

My dad has been granted bail till 17th feb so that gives him time to prepare my little brother & my options for what will be the best for all of us.

Hi again Nooney,

If I've understood your last post correctly your Dad, after a lot of thought and discussion with the family, decided to plead guilty and has to return on the 17th of Feb for sentencing.

The judge usually considers pre-sentence reports in deciding the length of sentence and it might be possible for you to submit reasons for him to receive a shorter sentence. I am not sure how this could be done but it would probably be via your solicitor and barrister rather than writing to the judge directly. If you can think of any character witnesses who would also add their voices, this would be good.

Hope all goes well for you.

**Nooney** · 6 January 2012, 11:03 AM

hello again people ive just woken up and guess what its the first thing on my mind...

I understand some of you people are saying why take the deal but when its put across like this by your own barrister.. if you say guilty now the judge doesnt have to see this incident from when you was younger i know this judge hes tough and if he sees this will think if you can do that when your younger why wouldnt you do it when your older and will come down on you with a tougher sentance and my dads sol just sat on fence..

hardened.. i shall look in to your advice my brothers mother even the accusers mother (my mum) give my dad a good character ref

cheers all

**fighter** · 6 January 2012, 11:10 AM

oh nooney, hugs to you..it is just sad; how can a barrister say that!:-(

**Nooney** · 6 January 2012, 11:49 AM

thank you fighter!

its just some thing we have to go through and come out the other end of with time things will get better.. we wont be the first and last to go through this

I worry about my dad in prison he isnt a fighter.He has alot of close friends and were all supporting him..

Just had a heart felt message from my little brother on fb which was upsetting saying he had a cry last night but loves us all especially

me for talking to him through it and looking after him

x

**gem** · 6 January 2012, 11:49 AM

hi nooney
hopefully rights fighter is back online today. she will give you invaluable advice as she works for an experienced sexual offence solicitor

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My dad's been accused :(

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