My Story... (LONG)... Input helpful and I am happy to discuss.

[lawlessone2009]

"Do I oppose the motion or do I actively encourage it??????????????????????"

64 million dollar question! Toss a coin, if you end up making it the best of 3 because you didn't like the first result, there's your answer!

Seriously, I don't know but you write a good letter. I don't blame you for wanting justice but it sounds a bit risky.

(I've just read the Moorov Doctrine thanks to your thread. It may help hub as the woman accusing him certainly wasn't distressed. We found several emails to her creditors and friends saying she was looking forward to her pay rise when I'd expect it to say 'looking for a better paid job' if she'd been assaulted.)

Moorov is Scottish law remember...

I reckon the prosecution have been tossing coins!

[is there justice?]

Moorov is Scottish law remember...

I reckon the prosecution have been tossing coins!

I'll avoid the first response that came into my head about tossers

I realised it's Scottish Law but was interested in the level of distress corroborating an accusation. Whilst I obviously believe someone who has been assaulted would be very distressed I also realise that some women, myself included, are consummate actors. I only use my acting skills for small scale manipulation of a situation I hasten to add.
Lord, it's just a minefield.

[cantgiveup]

"Do I oppose the motion or do I actively encourage it??????????????????????"

64 million dollar question! Toss a coin, if you end up making it the best of 3 because you didn't like the first result, there's your answer!

Seriously, I don't know but you write a good letter. I don't blame you for wanting justice but it sounds a bit risky.

(I've just read the Moorov Doctrine thanks to your thread. It may help hub as the woman accusing him certainly wasn't distressed. We found several emails to her creditors and friends saying she was looking forward to her pay rise when I'd expect it to say 'looking for a better paid job' if she'd been assaulted.)

I have just read the Moorov Doctrine too....that scares me..our accuser is a very good at being feigning distress - I have seen her in action previously

''I'll be looking after myself with 20 pints down the pub tonight..'' Hope you didn't have too sore a head after those pints

CGU

[is there justice?]

I have just read the Moorov Doctrine too....that scares me..our accuser is a very good at being feigning distress - I have seen her in action previously


CGU

As is our FA. However I think her actions and words will be wholly inconsistent with her dramatic performance. Just keep searching for all the contrary evidence you can find.

[cantgiveup]

Hey,

Hope you are feeling a bit better and the bug / work pressure is easing off. Unfortunately when we are stressed, it seems bugs seem to get a real hold, work piles up etc.

How are you feeling about the 10th? Have you had a change to get your head round everything that is happening? Hope you are ok, and I really hope while this is awful right now it is resolved quickly and ends in some kind of finality.

CGU

[lawlessone2009]

Hey,

Hope you are feeling a bit better and the bug / work pressure is easing off. Unfortunately when we are stressed, it seems bugs seem to get a real hold, work piles up etc.

How are you feeling about the 10th? Have you had a change to get your head round everything that is happening? Hope you are ok, and I really hope while this is awful right now it is resolved quickly and ends in some kind of finality.

CGU

Hey,

Had a pretty massive job on over the weekend and another even bigger job starting tomorrow. Going to be busy right up until the 10th.........

It's good not to get a minute to think though.

Even then you still get that minute.............. Had a chance to read over the appeals court findings and although they appear to cut new ground or whatever I actually take the same view as the solicitor/Advocate in that the appeal isn't evolving the law any more than it had already evolved...

I'm quite glad that the motion has been placed. Going to let it roll on and face this one. If nothing else it lets me see the solicitor/Advocate at work!

I really like the guys and I am sure they'll be darned good but being 'sure' is different from being 'certain'.

Time is blazing past though and I've simply not had time to dwell on things. Been more or less straight off to sleep every night lately as I've been that tired.

[cantgiveup]

Hey,

Had a pretty massive job on over the weekend and another even bigger job starting tomorrow. Going to be busy right up until the 10th.........

It's good not to get a minute to think though.

Even then you still get that minute.............. Had a chance to read over the appeals court findings and although they appear to cut new ground or whatever I actually take the same view as the solicitor/Advocate in that the appeal isn't evolving the law any more than it had already evolved...

I'm quite glad that the motion has been placed. Going to let it roll on and face this one. If nothing else it lets me see the solicitor/Advocate at work!

I really like the guys and I am sure they'll be darned good but being 'sure' is different from being 'certain'.

Time is blazing past though and I've simply not had time to dwell on things. Been more or less straight off to sleep every night lately as I've been that tired.

Hi,

Glad you are keeping busy and are managing to sleep, that certainly seems to be the key to 'coping', well for me at least.

It great you are confident with sol and advocate, that must be a massive weight off. I guess we have to go with our instinct with these things. I think generally sol's give you the worst outcome to prepare you, (or I hope that is what ours is doing!!!) so it good they are quite positive.

Yep only a week for you to get through and if like you say work is busy it will fly by. Will be thinking of you, can only begin to imagine how you must be feeling when you get those minutes.


CGU

[lawlessone2009]

I said to the two of them when I was in the room...

It'd have been better to have simply pled guilty at the very first opportunity, got a 'discount' on sentencing and put up with a couple of years in jail...

The Advocate, bless him, came back and said that I would them be on the sex offenders register...

I was thinking of hitting him back with the fact that the ECRB check will throw up all sorts of s41t anyway so I might as well be on the register for all that anyone is going to believe when they see the file which will contain unsubstantiated and unproven lies anyway...

I kinda went quiet for a minute or two instead...


I made clear that it is harder to be innocent and fighting it than innocent and throwing in the towel or indeed guilty and fighting it or guilty with the towel thrown in.

Guilty and away at the first opportunity - Easy
Guilty and fighting it - Relatively easy
Innocent and throwing in the towel - Difficult but understandable
Innocent and fighting it - Beyond comprehension


The problem is that now that things have got to where they are and so much time has passed with the tidal waves of emotions that have been the entire sorry process I am now left to wonder if it's all been worth while. Am I going to stand in a court of law and be wrongly found guilty? That would mean no discounted sentence, almost two years of hell in the interim AND the stresses and strains of the trial with the ultimate descent into oblivion upon the verdict.

I am not silly. I know that the law is there almost as a last resort to protect people and that the processes involved are complex because once a case makes it in front of a jury it's 50/50 regardless of what anyone wishes to spout as fact. Your either walking out the door or getting carted off in a van.

It's incredibly difficult on here to read peoples stories and then attempt to formulate replies. Passing into the realms of 'legal advice' is virtually impossible as without being legally qualified and/or experienced it's not going to happen. Instead it's left to kinda of share experience, show sympathy and potentially guide people to some answers or help. I don't deny that is exactly what this place is for but I do question sometimes why some of these cases are even entertained as the stories are so bloody ludicrous and the accusers so fundamentally retarded or malicious that it beggars belief a prosecutor would even look at the paperwork never mind attempt to justify a prosecution. I suppose a lot of people believe the story should be read but the prosecutors seem merely interested in ticking boxes and getting it into court, suppose that's what the public interest is kind of about but some of the stuff would cause the public to laugh, not want to screw someones life up and inflict months of pain and suffering on them never mind the consequences of a jail sentence.

I sometimes just wish I had a guilty bone somewhere in my body, it'd justify everything that's happened! Obviously, please, don't misinterpret that as me wishing to be a sexual offender it's just that being classed as one without being one is just bloody hard to stomach and I feel it'd be easier if I was one even though I wouldn't ever want to be one.................... Jeez............. Over interpretation and flood out of rage?

Basically, I wish I'd done something bloody wrong!

Offending someone hardly cuts the retaliation that the state wishes to meat out!!!!

[cantgiveup]

I said to the two of them when I was in the room...

It'd have been better to have simply pled guilty at the very first opportunity, got a 'discount' on sentencing and put up with a couple of years in jail...

The Advocate, bless him, came back and said that I would them be on the sex offenders register...

I was thinking of hitting him back with the fact that the ECRB check will throw up all sorts of s41t anyway so I might as well be on the register for all that anyone is going to believe when they see the file which will contain unsubstantiated and unproven lies anyway...

I kinda went quiet for a minute or two instead...


I made clear that it is harder to be innocent and fighting it than innocent and throwing in the towel or indeed guilty and fighting it or guilty with the towel thrown in.

Guilty and away at the first opportunity - Easy
Guilty and fighting it - Relatively easy
Innocent and throwing in the towel - Difficult but understandable
Innocent and fighting it - Beyond comprehension


The problem is that now that things have got to where they are and so much time has passed with the tidal waves of emotions that have been the entire sorry process I am now left to wonder if it's all been worth while. Am I going to stand in a court of law and be wrongly found guilty? That would mean no discounted sentence, almost two years of hell in the interim AND the stresses and strains of the trial with the ultimate descent into oblivion upon the verdict.

I am not silly. I know that the law is there almost as a last resort to protect people and that the processes involved are complex because once a case makes it in front of a jury it's 50/50 regardless of what anyone wishes to spout as fact. Your either walking out the door or getting carted off in a van.

It's incredibly difficult on here to read peoples stories and then attempt to formulate replies. Passing into the realms of 'legal advice' is virtually impossible as without being legally qualified and/or experienced it's not going to happen. Instead it's left to kinda of share experience, show sympathy and potentially guide people to some answers or help. I don't deny that is exactly what this place is for but I do question sometimes why some of these cases are even entertained as the stories are so bloody ludicrous and the accusers so fundamentally retarded or malicious that it beggars belief a prosecutor would even look at the paperwork never mind attempt to justify a prosecution. I suppose a lot of people believe the story should be read but the prosecutors seem merely interested in ticking boxes and getting it into court, suppose that's what the public interest is kind of about but some of the stuff would cause the public to laugh, not want to screw someones life up and inflict months of pain and suffering on them never mind the consequences of a jail sentence.

I sometimes just wish I had a guilty bone somewhere in my body, it'd justify everything that's happened! Obviously, please, don't misinterpret that as me wishing to be a sexual offender it's just that being classed as one without being one is just bloody hard to stomach and I feel it'd be easier if I was one even though I wouldn't ever want to be one.................... Jeez............. Over interpretation and flood out of rage?

Basically, I wish I'd done something bloody wrong!

Offending someone hardly cuts the retaliation that the state wishes to meat out!!!!

Never admit to something you are not guilty of. Fight back, keep doing what you have been doing, dig around, learn and participate fully with your legal team. I get it is awful, overwhelming, all-consuming to keep fighting, for it to go on so long, while it destroys a big part of your life, but it is worth fighting to prove your innocence...believe the truth will eventually out, please do not give up on your fight.

You have touched on this before, it is the nature of the allegation, it is so vile and unthinkable and so emotive, that is part of what makes it so hard. An accusation of any other crime would be so much easier to handle cope with, others would not have such strong opinions. I have thought this before, I have thought that if my partner was accused of for example robbing a post office, I would have found it so much easier to cope with.

You have done nothing wrong, don't wish you had. Believe in yourself, trust your legal team and most of all look after yourself.



This forum is and can provide lots of people with advice, but for me at least it provides understanding and support that is not there from many others at the moment. Take what you can from it, you don't need to provide the best most accurate advice, your support and understanding is enough. This forum is prove of what you say, that there are some downright crazy 'stories' out there and it does pose a worry that 'those in powerful, decision making positions' are giving them any kind of room, but unfortunately it is the system we have....

CGU

[lawlessone2009]

Hey...

It's not just all that.

All around me I hear comments and insinuations and mention and on occasion actions that fall real foul of the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009. It's as if the entire country is oblivious to the content of such law and yet they feel that they are able to simply brand people rapists and beat them up (not me directly here!).

Almost on a daily basis I meet good decent people that would easily be branded criminals under this legislation and yet they simply don't know about it. There are so many laws that are in existence that people break and yet do not know about... Rather than tearing down 'corroboration' I reckon it's time they tear up the legislation and start again. Simple laws with wide interpretations instead of masses of law with varying interpretations and all interconnected.

There is something inherently wrong with the legislation. There is something inherently wrong with politicians and courts and justice. My mind is working towards the answer, I know it's 'divide, conquer, make money' but there's something else there.

I'm innocent. The point I attempted to make to the legal team is that this really would all have been so much easier if I simply pled guilty at the outset. I cannot believe how difficult and 'guilty feeling' being innocent really is! It's a bloody scandal and nobody is ever held to account. The scary thing is I could well be branded 'guilty' at the end of it all and even if a court and jury find me innocent I STILL have marks against my name for a crime that never happened!

[is there justice?]

Last night I discovered information that is going to hopefully destroy any chances of a successful prosecution.

I discovered this information thanks to all of you guys on here. Piecing together the wealth of knowledge and throwing in a little piece of personally found information I have completely picked apart the case against me and actually discovered that there is a strong possibility that some glaring mistakes and incompetence by the Police could mean that a malicious prosecution may take place.

I've sure as hell pissed off enough in officialdom to make a prosecution a likelyhood but then we will ultimately see. Over the next period of time I am going to assemble the information into a reasonably understandable writing and make it available for all to view. It may be that my information is of no use to me in the end but it really could help others that find themselves in a nightmare of a situation and have been treated like vermin by the state.

Thank you guys.

Pressure certainly causes the mind to focus. I hope this new info will clear you once and for all.

[whatsgoingon?]

Hey...

It's not just all that.
All around me I hear comments and insinuations and mention and on occasion actions that fall real foul of the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009. It's as if the entire country is oblivious to the content of such law and yet they feel that they are able to simply brand people rapists and beat them up (not me directly here!).

Almost on a daily basis I meet good decent people that would easily be branded criminals under this legislation and yet they simply don't know about it.
Absolutely! They should teach 'a basic guide to national (and European?) preferably starting at kintergarten,to make sure everyone has a chance to cover and learn it all by the time they leave school!

There are so many laws that are in existence that people break and yet do not know about...
Too true....infact it's pretty alarming that we live in an increasingly punitive society.

Rather than tearing down 'corroboration' I reckon it's time they tear up the legislation and start again. Simple laws with wide interpretations instead of masses of law with varying interpretations and all interconnected.
Don't like the 'wide interpretation ' part

There is something inherently wrong with the legislation. There is something inherently wrong with politicians and courts and justice. My mind is working towards the answer, I know it's 'divide, conquer, make money' but there's something else there.
Yes


I'm innocent. The point I attempted to make to the legal team is that this really would all have been so much easier if I simply pled guilty at the outset. I cannot believe how difficult and 'guilty feeling' being innocent really is! It's a bloody scandal and nobody is ever held to account. The scary thing is I could well be branded 'guilty' at the end of it all and even if a court and jury find me innocent I STILL have marks against my name for a crime that never happened!

It has been a really long , rough ride for you..... forgive me for saying this but perhaps jumping in with both feet when you thought it was over, wasn't the wisest thing to do? This is a tricky one, when is a good time? If everyone shuts up, change will not happen. We're in that dilemna right now.


and you said this in a previous post:
It'd have been better to have simply pled guilty at the very first opportunity, got a 'discount' on sentencing and put up with a couple of years in jail...


You are joking, aren't you??? How dare you attempt to corrupt the justice system?! Seriously, there are people who do this, throw in the towel or whatever. It absolutely breaks my heart that anyone guilty should end up behind bars, yet alone someone who got there by admitting to something they didn't do.

No, you will just have to keep fighting, you're pretty amazing at it. Just concentrate on yourself and your situation for now ), the wider issues ,later.

[cantgiveup]

Hey...

It's not just all that.

All around me I hear comments and insinuations and mention and on occasion actions that fall real foul of the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009. It's as if the entire country is oblivious to the content of such law and yet they feel that they are able to simply brand people rapists and beat them up (not me directly here!).

Almost on a daily basis I meet good decent people that would easily be branded criminals under this legislation and yet they simply don't know about it. There are so many laws that are in existence that people break and yet do not know about... Rather than tearing down 'corroboration' I reckon it's time they tear up the legislation and start again. Simple laws with wide interpretations instead of masses of law with varying interpretations and all interconnected.

There is something inherently wrong with the legislation. There is something inherently wrong with politicians and courts and justice. My mind is working towards the answer, I know it's 'divide, conquer, make money' but there's something else there.


I'm innocent. The point I attempted to make to the legal team is that this really would all have been so much easier if I simply pled guilty at the outset. I cannot believe how difficult and 'guilty feeling' being innocent really is! It's a bloody scandal and nobody is ever held to account. The scary thing is I could well be branded 'guilty' at the end of it all and even if a court and jury find me innocent I STILL have marks against my name for a crime that never happened!

I know exactly where you are coming from....there are a lot of people who wake up on a Friday or Saturday morning look beside them and think - what? I wouldn't have done that sober? That does not mean it is rape! There are also a lot of people who get carried away in a moment, a rage, a set of circumstances that leads them to do something they would not do if they had thought things through, again this is not rape. This thought goes through my head repeatedly, I personally can think of two occasions where according to the law, I was raped. One through alcohol and not really having an awareness of what I was doing and once, well vulnerable and taken advantage of, BUT I didn't make my feelings clear, I didn't react, I let it happen.That is prob a grey area, but he didn't know my emotional state at the time and I wasn't clear and had willingly put myself in the position. Again not rape. I am telling every sexually active man / woman I know to protect themselves as far as they can at the moment for fear of anyone else I care about finding themselves here.

I understand your feelings of it being easier to have pled guilty at the start, it is even possible the whole thing would be behind you by now, but that is not 'right' you have to stand up and fight to clear your name as far as you can. The marks against your name are to my mind unforgivable, I worry about this for my partner also - the whole no smoke without fire theory. Very cruel, very unfair and very unjust. It will take people like us, who have been through this to campaign to change things, but first you need (wrong though it is) to fight against what is immediately happening to you

CGU

[lawlessone2009]

Meeting with solicitor and Advocate today...

Confidence is forever growing in the team. Will get some further info today no doubt.

Will post back laters.

[Don'tbelieveit!]

Good luck!