Not guilty plea and meeting with solicitor

[lifesnotfair]

Hello again, an update on b/f's situation. He went to court today and entered a plea of not guilty. Up until now, he was prohibited from contacting the owners of the club where he was working under the conditions of his bail. However, today those conditions were lifted. He went to see the two owners who told him they downloaded the entire night's cctv footage and gave it to the police. There are parts of this footage that does not corroborate his accuser's version of events. For example, in her statement she claimed that 'I am afraid of X (b/f), I always have been. I find him intimidating', yet there is footage that shows her walking up to him hugging him, giving him a kiss and chatting to him. Also, there is a part of the night where she claims she went outside 'for about 20 seconds and then went straight back upstairs again'. CCTV footage shows her outside talking to b/f for about 15 minutes. B/f's solicitor is still waiting for the police to forward this CCTV footage to him (there must be hours of it) but so far they have been forthcoming. They have also not forwarded the transcripts from his phone.

The two owners of the club are now defences witnesses and are prepared to testify that they gave this footage to the police and that they have seen it themselves.

What will happen if it is found that the police are deliberately withholding this information? Comments on the above anyone?

Thank you in anticipation. x

[Casehardened]

Hello,

As the matter has now proceeded to court almost certainly the police will have handed over all the evidence to the CPS.

I don't suppose they (CPS) are deliberately holding anything back, it's probably due to an overload of cases, but they are unlikely to hand anything directly over to your b/f.

Your solicitor will have to rattle their cage; obviously if he doesn't get the paperwork & a copy of the CCTV tapes in time to prepare the defence, he can apply to have the court date put back.

I guess though, you're both anxious to get it sorted.....

[lifesnotfair]

Thank you casehardened. Yes we are anxious but the police seem cagey whenever this cctv footage is mentioned. They will only admit to having cctv footage showing accuser leaving the club 'in a distressed state'. Surely they cannot withhold the rest of the footage they have? If the owners of the club state that they handed this over but no one has seen it, what will that mean?

[Casehardened]

I'm sure you're right to be suspicious; I guess the police watched the whole tape & then just copied the bits that help their case to use as evidence.

Your solicitor (with b/f's assistance) can of course play exactly the same game and select out the bits which help the defence.

If the whole tape has in fact disappeared, or been erased, whilst in police hands, this is disgraceful and I would expect the defence barrister to make much of this.

However it might be worth investigating what type of CCTV equipment is installed at the club.

On a system which I helped install, the camera images were stored on a hard drive within the recorder. If an incident occurred the recorder could be interrogated and the selected images copied to two identical CD's (possibly one for the defence?) to hand over to the police.

The original recording remained on the hard drive until it was eventually overwritten by fresh images, this time lapse dependant on the capacity of the hard drive.

If the club uses a similar system then possibly the police just lifted the images they wanted?

[LS]

You mentioned that the cctv evidence was "downloaded" ie copied from somewhere and burned onto something else (like a tape or DVD) and it was this tape or DVD which was handed over.
Meaning that your b/f's employers should still have the original? If this is the case, get it downloaded again and given to your sols.

As Casehardened said, if the police/cps have "lost" the cctv stuff then it's disgraceful and should be argued out in court by your barrister. However, if they are using it in court, then they can hardly have lost or mislaid it.
If they have edited bits and done a copy-n-paste job, then that in itself is disgraceful, because we all know how video-suite editing can make something look something it's not.

They should have the complete, original, unadulterated cctc evidence to hand. If they haven't, then your barrister needs to ask some very searching questions.

I'm not the knowledgeable one on this, but if the police are withholding vital defence information from a trial, then that should be raised in court - in the interests of a fair trial - and if the cctv isn't forthcoming, then I'd be gunning for having the case thrown out.

[Casehardened]

You mentioned that the cctv evidence was "downloaded" ie copied from somewhere and burned onto something else (like a tape or DVD) and it was this tape or DVD which was handed over.
Meaning that your b/f's employers should still have the original? If this is the case, get it downloaded again and given to your sols.

Good point, LS, I missed this in the OP.

Sounds like it is indeed HDD storage. I can't now remember how long ago the incident took place; it may be as the premises will probably have multiple cameras all feeding into the single recorder, the storage capacity might only be sufficient for a month or so before it gets recorded over again, in which case lifesnotfair's boyfriend will have to rely on the DVD/CD the police were given.

[LS]

Good point, CH. Another bit I've realised is, if it's a HDD setup (and plod seized it, not the DVD), surely it'll be treated the same as a pc, and be forensically examined. In which case there should be reams and reams of forensic examiner paperwork to show for it.
Along with a copy of the relevant recording, surely?

[Casehardened]

Another bit I've realised is, if it's a HDD setup (and plod seized it, not the DVD), surely it'll be treated the same as a pc, and be forensically examined. In which case there should be reams and reams of forensic examiner paperwork to show for it.
Along with a copy of the relevant recording, surely?

I would think that the recorder would be only seized for forensic examination if the owners of the business were implicated in the crime in some way (so they couldn't wipe the HDD)

Otherwise the recorder is left in situ & the relevant images lifted from it (the recorder I installed had a CD slot and the relevant software to link up a monitor, scroll through all the stored images, and burn the required stuff onto 2 blank CD's to hand over to the police)

In this instance I would think the recorder would definitely be left on the premises, after all they were probably be open again for clubbing the next night, so would need to keep the cameras running.

I hope lifesnotfair doesn't think we're thread drifting but, as her boyfriend considers the CCTV footage contains evidence to help him, it is relevant.

The crucial thing is how many days storage capacity the system has (this information may have been given by the installer at the time, or whoever maintains the system could be asked)

If the date of the allegation was within the storage window of the system (i.e. it holds 30 days worth of footage & the incident happened 3 weeks ago) then another CD could be made of the stuff that showed her being friendly.

If not, then the footage will have been wiped by the fresh stuff being recorded.

From what lifesnotfair said in her OP, it sounds like the police were given the entire nights footage on their DVD/CD and selected what they wanted. (Edit to note I must read posts properly, as per the OP, they were given the entire night's recording) So what happened to the rest of the footage

[Saffron]

If the police were given the full nights footage then they should hand over a full copy to the defendant's sol in the "unused bundle" shouldn't they?

[Rights Fighter]

They probably would not place the actual video recordings into the Unused but there will be a mention of it on the Schedule - probably with "CND" (Clearly Not Disclosable) next to it.

The barrister should have been given, or will be given a copy of all unused schedules and will make applications as he or she sees fit, for certain evidence. It might be that this will become part of an application via the Court if the Crown is not willing to share the evidence.

[Casehardened]

If the police were given the full nights footage then they should hand over a full copy to the defendant's sol in the "unused bundle" shouldn't they?

I'm sure you're right but I think it is inefficiency on the part of the CPS rather than a deliberate omission, after all when do lawyers ever work quickly

From the OP:

B/f's solicitor is still waiting for the police to forward this CCTV footage to him (there must be hours of it) but so far they have been forthcoming. They have also not forwarded the transcripts from his phone.



Edit: oops, RF has given a better answer whilst I was typing...

[lifesnotfair]

Thank you so much everyone for your input. Yes they do have the entire night's footage, from a total of 12 cameras, on DVD. The owners haven't kept copies unfortunately. I think it's a bit of a 'watch this space' situation.