So worried

[Boys don't cry]

I don't want to upset you Billy but I think that your solicitor is right.
It is not relevant.

Nothing proves that she recognised or saw you.
If she did,she might have react,but nothing happened.

(Anyway you did the right thing not to...)

Ignorance can be a good defence.

[billykickass]

No i didnt think it was particurly relevant either when it happened, just thought id share the experience here thats all.

[diana_holbourn]

Still, it's a pity the sol doesn't think it's relevant; it could have been good to have the film played in court and for her to have been asked, "How come you were so happy and content to sit just a few feet from your alleged rapist, in fact even choosing to sit there?"

[Faith]

The counter argument would be that she never saw him

[Boys don't cry]

Exactement!

I will stress once again that it is not significant and thank you Faith.

The prosecution will say that it was just a coincidence that they were a few meters from each other.

It can happen and as long as you don't do anything silly...you protect yourself.

[diana_holbourn]

The counter argument would be that she never saw him

Possibly, but genuine rape victims tend to be hypervigilant, semi-consciously on the alert looking out for their rapists everywhere to protect themselves. I suppose that if she was asked why she wasn't, she could argue that since it's been a while since it happened, those responses had died down. But if she hadn't prepared such a defence in advance, it might take her a little while to think of such an answer and she might seem a bit confused for a few seconds before she did. Still, this is just speculation.

[Faith]

Well in theory yes, but rape affects people in different ways.

Regardless of speculation, it is not admissable in court

[diana_holbourn]

Well, if you're sure it isn't admissible, it isn't admissible and that's that. But it's still a shame, because actually, it would be difficult for her to claim she didn't see him, since he says, "
She was within 2ft of me at one one point looking at me clearly". Just asking her why she didn't seem upset or scared might be revealing, it seems to me.

[Faith]

Well we shall have to disagree on that one

[diana_holbourn]

Oh well, I don't suppose it really matters, since Billy's solicitor will probably have much better evidence to use.

[Rights Fighter]

People often don't notice who is sat right next to them if they are in a 'world of their own'. If the sol (I know him) thought it was relevant I would have been astonished.

Genuine rape victims do not generally live in a world of hypersensitivity that they must check that their assailant is not close by at every given moment - not so long after the event.

It's likely she wasn't inspecting every face on the beach or those close to her. If she had noticed our Billy sat there don't you think she would have rushed off to her liaison officer to report him for breaking his bail conditions? Of course she didn't see him so the 'evidence' does not arise.

[diana_holbourn]

The point though is that she seemed to be staring right at him and yet didn't recognise him, so how can she be sure he's really the one who committed the alleged crime? If she doesn't even recognise the one she's accusing, would she even recognise him in court if he walked by her before the trial? If she doesn't even recognise him without being told he's the one she's accusing, and yet earlier she said she was sure it was him, I'd have thought that weakens her case.


But since, as I said, there's bound to be stronger evidence the solicitor can use so it doesn't matter about this issue, there's probably not too much point continuing to talk about it, unless it seems there's something in it after all.


And why would she have rushed off to report Billy for breaking his bail conditions when he was the one sitting there first and she walked right up to them out of the blue?

[Faith]

A beach is different to a court room Diana. We all can miss people we recognise in a crowded area like a beach. Whatever way it is looked at, even if the solicitor knew a million times more than us or exactly the same, the fact that she sat on the beach near to member billykickass is in no way or form a defense to state that he didn't rape her.
That is the end of the matter, if you don't mind.

I do not want this thread to be derailed by those who insist on having the last word every time.

[Rights Fighter]

Billy was named as the assailant. This is not a case of mistaken identity.

Just to clarify the breaking of bail conditions. It often does not come down to common sense. A defendant can be walking around minding his own business and the complainant can see him at a distance and claim he was within X yards of her. He could be in trouble for that.

Even though Billy was there first, his account is that he stayed a short while and then left, so as not to attract attention to himself. He did the right thing. If he had not moved, even if he was 'there first' he could still be breaking his bail conditions if he does not move - simply because he is closer than the allowed distance. It's unfair. But it happens.

One of my guys (Mr Kaz - some members will know of him as his was my first successful appeal) - he had been accused of being somewhere he was not. He was accused of drawing his finger across his throat and saying to the complainant 'today you die'.

He spent three months in prison on remand for allegedly breaking his bail conditions. When it got to court (as he denied it) he appeared with half a dozen witnesses who could prove he was not there, and the liars did not put in an appearance.

It was a vicious lie. He wasn't there. He could prove he wasn't there but the police were not interested and he spent three months in prison on the back of that lie. He was only released once the court date for allegedly breaking his bail condition came around.

Apologies Faith for appearing to have the last word, but I wanted to make it crystal clear that it is so very easy to be accused of breaking bail conditions and it is best to avoid any contact, even eye contact, with the complainants and any of their witnesses at all times.

[Faith]

Thanks for this hon