Son accused yesterday. Practical advice needed please.

[desertorkid]

Yesterday my son was arrested on accusations of 3 counts of rape and 1 sexual assault on an ex-girlfriend. He is now 17. She is now 15. The allegations are supposed to have happened in 2009, with the same ex-girlfriend when he was 16 and she was 14. Unreported at the time. She is quite mature and eloquent for her age but has childlike tendencies too. We also don't know what has prompted it to be reported last week - nearly 2 years down the line. They split in Summer 2010 - a year or so after the alleged incidents

He was released on bail last night and computers/phone seized.

He's not in a good place and I would be grateful for some practical advice. He had a Duty Solicitor but because I wasn't allowed with them I have no idea how effective he was. My son is 17 going on 15 so he's not overly mature for his age and wouldnt really know whether he was effective or not. When he reappears in May will the same Duty Solicitor be available for him, or would it be another on the day or should we start looking for a personal solicitor now?

I am very concerned about his mental well-being and will take him to the Doctors for advice on counselling so I'm OK there.

He is very worried about fabricated evidence. He insists he has never had sex with her. There is no DNA evidence because she didnt report any of them at the time they were supposed to happen. There is apparently some MSN conversations , the content of which I do not know. He also says it was not uncommon for friends to use his MSN if it was on and they were round - he'd go play drums and leave mates to mess around on there. Teenage boys do that, apparently!! No idea if there is a link but I can understand that could happen amongst teenage boys and you wouldnt necessarily think it might lead to a serious allegation against you later on. I have said that if this becomes an issue we can look at comparing his MSN style with any evidence presented to him. People have different styles, like handwriting and there may be something there to look at? I do not know what the connection is behind the MSN conversation between her and him (alleged him) and the actual allegations.

There are also facebook wall and ke messages between him and her long after they split which are friendly and amicable - not many, but they are there. There is also evidence of "facebook-rape" when someone puts messages on your page in a way that suggests you put it there yourself. I don't really understand the mechanics of it, but I recall one message that he allegedly put up which didnt sound like him at all and I even posted to say "Did you put this on because it doesnt sound like you?" He said someone else was messing about and he removed it.

He is thinking worst case scenario - what if they find something that doesnt look good, that he can't reasonably explain and then going to prison and being attacked because he would be convicted of raping a girl. He is scared witless.

I have done as much as I can to help him think rationally and to keep his head, that finding MSN conversations of whatever nature is not in and of itself proof beyond all reasonable doubt that he forced himself on a girl 3 times. Also, in his favour, there is evidence to show that she was happy to communicate freely with him after they had both split up. The police have to prove his absolute guilt, in law, and that rape (although a hideous crime to commit) is actually very very difficult to prove beyond all reasonable doubt.

If anyone can give any practical advice on what we can do in these very early days after the first arrest that would be helpful.

Sorry for the longwinded rant - it's been rather cathartic for me being able to release on a forum that will understand the problem.

Many thanks

[LS]

Hi and welcome to the site

You seem to have everything covered, re MSN etc so probably not much one could advise further at the moment. Unfortunate that pc & phone seized, so what evidence you can use is what was sent to you on your MSN/FB etc. A practical solution would be to collate all relevant conversations off your pc and keep them to one side so you can formulate a good defence.

You didn't say if your son has been charged/went to magistrates court, as the Duty Solicitor won't really represent him further unless/until he has been charged, and this could be months away. There would also not be "another court hearing" unless he's been charged, so I'm guessing he's out on police bail pending inquiries, having not been charged. So from this point it's a waiting game for the police/cps to decide if there's a case to be taken to court.

Usually the same Duty Sol would be available for the next court hearing, but having said that it isn't unheard of for a number of reasons for that sol to not attend (illness, other cases etc) so don't count 100% that they will definitely be there. It could well be a partner in the same practice, or often another duty sol may cover if it's a minor procedural hearing.

Sadly, these cases are often just the other party's word against the other with little or no supporting evidence, so it is entirely possible to be convicted as your son fears. However, just as common is the fact that these cases do not even reach court - the cps drop the case (NFA - No Further Action).
All you can realistically do at the moment is collect any and all info/evidence you think is relevant, and present it to your solicitor in due course.

[desertorkid]

thanks LS

He was released on bail last night and has to report back in May so I assume they will be looking at his computer and phone. I'm just a bit confused on tactics really - do we continue with the Duty Solicitor (who I assume is perfectly qualified to advise him and who my son described as "nice and helpful") because he knows what's happened already or do we NOW search for a long-term solicitor to be with him at the next appearance at the custody centre?

I don't have evidence of the MSN conversation that she has apparently given to them and whilst he said he was presented with some conversations yesterday he even said to me that he wasnt allowed to talk about it. Now, knowing my son and the way he works, that isn't necessarily a guilt thing. If someone tells him to jump, he jumps and he jumps high!! He is so scared of saying/doing the wrong thing. But the one thing he is doing is maintaining he did nothing at all and that this is all fabricated. What he doesn't know is a) why and b) why now. We can't seem to establish a motive for her to lie at the moment. And that is obviously worrying for him and for me, when I need to be believing him 100%

In terms of evidence - we have little. I am still a facebook friend of the accuser from back then and so anything she writes or posts is on my computer although we don't actually interact (apart from wishing her a happy birthday!). She has also continued to be his facebook friend which seems odd. But I do have bits - 2 or 3 where they have commented to each other in a friendly, amiable way on trivial matters.

We hear so many scare stories and very few about NFAs because they're not newsworthy.

Any advice on the best legal approach now would be helpful.

Thanks

[LS]

From the sound of it he's on police bail - not charged - and thus as he hasn't been charged then the duty sol won't have much more to do with him until that happens, due to funding.

Why is he "not allowed to talk about it"? I would think he can discuss it with you. His sol may have told him to make "no comment" or not to answer certain questions to the police in interview, but surely he should be able to talk to you?

Motive: the other people using his MSN and FB screams motive to me. Who knows what his "mates" have sent her in his name? A range of insults, or bullying or other activity could be the reason she's now got a major hump.

[Midnight and Worried]

hello desertorkid,

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles but this site will give you some valuable information and a lot of support.

You do need to sit down with your Son and rack your brains as to why this girl would make such an allegation especially after such a long time.

My Grandson was accused three days after the alleged rape and I did have FB evidence to show that they were still friendly and she made no mention of her accusation even in private messages.

I suggest that you do as I did and take screenshots of everything that was said between them on FB no matter how far back it goes,this will help prove the relationship and the fact that she was still friends with your Son will help.

My Grandson was rebailed three times between July and December so you may have to prepare yourself for the long haul,it isn't unusual for investigations to take several months I'm afraid due to the backlog that the Police have in regard to forensic examination,in our case it was a mobile phone.

He also had a duty solicitor who failed to turn up at the first rebail and I did enlist the help of a specialist solicitor who was very proactive and my Grandson was NFA'd not longer after he took over so it is worth thinking about.

I'm sure that others will be along to give you advice and offer their support,I know what a traumatic experience this can be but this community gave me lots of practical advice and I'm sure you will get all the suport that you need.

Take care of yourself..

[desertorkid]

you are right - he is on police bail and from what you say, if the Duty solicitor is unlikely to have any more involvement, we'd best start looking for a solicitor for when he goes back to the custody centre in May. I'll get on the case tomorrow.

re: messages - I'm not sure about why he thinks he cant tell me- this all happened yesterday so his mind is all over the place. We will talk properly shortly. He is trying to be calm and grown-up on the outside but in private with me and on the inside he is being torn apart.

the bit about mates using his computer is good motive to lie but, if someone looked at that objectively, I can also see how it could scream of desperation to deflect guilt somewhere else, even if you ARE entirely innocent - which is why when I get to the bottom of that MSN conversation, I will be able to help him more on a logical level and help him with some defence.

What I also have to remember is that whilst he may be an adult in law, he is and she is, in mind, a child. He acts like he's 14. She acts like she's 14. It may be more difficult for children to concoct and maintain a complicated story than a more mature and worldly adult. I am hanging on that a bit, but I've got to hang on to something. I just hope her story unravels.... I assume having questioned him, they will want to speak with her again.

Next steps then, find a solicitor and get him some counselling.

thanks for the support so far.

[desertorkid]

..and thanks too to midnight and worried. just saw your response after I posted my last one. I will be actively seeking legal advice with him tomorrow.

the facebook stuff that I have found is only what's on my computer because they are friends and I am friends with them both - mutual postings if you like. She posts something which appears on my feed and he makes a comment. she comments back. Nothing exciting but done amiably. Another one where he has posted a comment and she has responded with an amiable reply. The MSN conversations and anything private between them are directly on his computer which was seized when he was arrested.

[Verity]

Thanks W&M!!

Think we were thinking and typing the same thing at the same time!!!

Do you feel a little better now desertorkid?

[Midnight and Worried]

The MSN conversations and anything private between them are directly on his computer which was seized when he was arrested.

If they are on MSN or FB you only need his passwords and you can retrieve them and screenshot them,those convos could be important.

[Casehardened]

Hi desertorkid,

From what you have posted it would seem that what is on his computor is fairly pivotal to the case. It may be the girl has mentioned it in her initial interview and that is why it was seized.

It may well be that the police/CPS won't make a decision as what to do until they have seen what is on there. In this case it could well be a long haul as in many areas there is a queue for computor forensic examination (in my area it's 6/7 months) unless it's a particularly urgent case.

Not wanting to depress you unduly but every instinct wants it to be over quickly, and it may be better to prepare yourself mentally for it to be fairly drawn out.

[Shatteredhusband]

So sorry to hear that your son has been accused at such a young age.

I think you do right to look for a specialist solicitor. It would be best to find one who specialises in defending false allegations of rape rather than just rape allegations. You will get good advice from FASO. If you google them you will get the number. They should be able to recommend someone in your area. I am also on police bail but am glad that I engaged a specialist solicitor despite the cost.

I think that Casehardened is right about estimates for how long things will take if the computers need to be examined. I was told that some computers are not done for up to twelve months in our area.

I wonder if it is embarrassment which is making your son not wish to discuss the MSN content with his mum. I would leave it a couple of days then make sure that he knows whatever the MSN content you will not be upset with him. He will probably be more worried that he could go to prison than that he will disappoint you with whatever it is. So he needs to know that you can help him defend himself better if you know what it is.

You mentioned about motives earlier. There can be many reasons for these terrible false allegations. You may find the following useful to help your son work out why she may have done it. I took it from this useful webpage
http://www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/


As with all of human behavior, there are numerous reasons why a person would lie about being raped. In the study of false rape allegations in the midwestern town and state universities, over half of the accusers fabricated the rape to serve as a "cover story" or alibi. This included 56% of the non-student and 53% of the student false accusers. The most frequent context and motive for the fabricated rape was consensual sex with an acquaintance that led to some sort of problem for the accuser. The perceived problem was typically something that caused feelings of shame and guilt in the accuser (such as contracting a sexually transmitted disease or becoming pregnant), which was bound to be discovered and received negatively by family or friends.

Approximately half of the accusers who were motivated by a need for an alibi identified the alleged rapist. Their goal was not to harm or cause problems for the acquaintance, but to protect themselves in what they perceived to be a desperate situation. As with most lies, the false rape accusation allowed the accuser to deny responsibility by creating an alternate reality into which to escape.

The next most common reason for lying about being a victim of rape was revenge, rage, or retribution. In the Midwest study, this included 27% of the non-student and 44% of the student accusers. In these cases, the false victim had suffered some real or perceived wrong, rejection, or betrayal by the alleged rapist. As the purpose of making the accusation was to obtain some measure of revenge, the "suspect" was always identified. Researchers in the Air Force study also found that spite or revenge and the need to compensate for a sense of personal failure through an alibi accusation were the primary motives for false rape reports.

There are a range of other reasons why women made false allegations of rape. For some, it was to meet the overwhelming need for attention often associated with Munchaussen Syndrome or Borderline Personality Disorder. In those cases a specific suspect was seldom identified. Others filed false reports in an attempt to essentially "extort" money from the accused, who was typically wealthy. Because the goal was financial, the accuser was typically not motivated to pursue the case through formal legal channels, preferring to push for a settlement.

As with certain false allegations of child sexual abuse, false allegations of rape may be the unfortunate byproduct of "recovered memory therapy." False allegations (of child abuse and domestic violence, as well as rape) are also known to arise in the context of divorce and disputed child custody. Within the context of the military, false reports of rape may be filed in order to avoid deployment to war zones.

[Saffron]

The difference in Desertorkid's son's case is that he is categorically stating that intercourse, consensual or otherwise, did not actually take place. This makes the motive of alibi/guilt etc non-applicable.

Desertorkid, it sounds like you have thought this through thoroughly and are taking all the right steps. As for the MSN messages - surely they would not be saved on the individual hard drive, and can be retrieved/viewed simply by accessing your son's account on another computer. All you need is his username and password.

Your son is very fortunate to have you on his side. I hope we can be of some support and assistance to you.

[desertorkid]

thanks everyone for your messages of support and practical MSN advice (which is completely alien to an old bloke like me!). I cant tell you how helpful you have all been.

[desertorkid]

Just an update. Things seem a little brighter today. After a couple of days of no questions and just supporting him over the initial shock, I sat down with my son today and had a long talk (with my sister the police officer present to help with the procedural stuff!). She was very helpful in explaining the Police Operational Handbook and what elements of rape need to be proven (I know that means nothing to all the victims of false conviction but it has really helped us). The added advantage, as already mentioned, the police will not mess this up as they know my sister will be watching closely.

Anhow, after a long talk it seems clear, from what we know, there seems to be no definite date or time for any of the incidents (unless the police were deliberately holding those back in the hope it tallies with something they might find on his computer!?) They are unspecified at the moment. We have full evidence of social history between them up to January this year and evidence of socialising up to Halloween 2010. She makes a lot of reference to "rape" in joke contexts on her facebook pages - which is interesting - none of them in conversation with my son - but all to her friends.

My son had been worried about MSN conversations. When probed further he was scared of nothing more than them finding swearing and rude jokes! That was all it was. I certainly put his mind at rest!!

He also told the police the reason why he got back with her after the first time they broke up. She had told him that a boy had groped her and it had really upset her. He felt sorry for her and got back with her. He was an immature 15 year old (mental age of 13/14 when he was 15).

We still have this wonderfully creative book of poetry and message of love that she did him for Valentine's day which further demonstrate that not only is there a distinct lack of fear in being with him but actually more of an obsessive compulsion to be with him (at the time - I don't think this is borne out of any current jealousy). It is actually a really sweet book and the kind of thing many 13/14 yr old girls would do. It will be interesting to see what his full statement says when they've done the transcript but the solicitor told him he had "done fine".

He seems a lot brighter in himself now that we have established current facts (no date/time offered, no evidence of current or past trauma, HER references to rape in joke contexts (would you really do this if it happened to you?!), a full social history, her obvious attention-seeking on facebook (lots of "up and down moments") and her longstanding happiness to be in his company. He has convinced me he has nothing at all to hide or that he can even think of anything remotely important that might explain why she has made this allegation now and against him. He really understood the importance of not hiding anything - however embarrassing). The only thing we can think of is that she is trying to make it seem some time ago so as to account for vagueness and the only person that could fit the bill would be her boyfriend of 2 years ago - my son. Hopefully, once the computer has been analysed, this will all be over with NFA and they throw the book at her. However, I know that this will take time.

[Verity]

Well done!

Well done to your son, it must have been difficult for him.

I hope he has found reassurance from the session and now feels he can be completely open to you from now on.
Hopefully you feel more in control of the situation.
Your calmness will be picked up by your son and will help him get through this.
There is nothing like family at a time like this.