need help and advice please

[Rights Fighter]

Are his trial sols and counsel lodging an appeal? I cannot see how I can help if they are.

[truth seeker]

As far as i am aware he applied whilst he was at court for an appeal if that makes sense sorry not sure how the court system works in relation to appeals and so on

[Rights Fighter]

It sounds like the barrister has grounds for appeal in mind - possibly a technicality as it was immediately after trial.

Which county are you based in? Probably too far away for us to meet?

[truth seeker]

i am in england. when you say technicality what could that be ? i know that he told the court that at the time of alledged offence he had broken ribs as the victim stated he picked her up one handed and tossed her onto the bed before pinning her down with his body which could not have happened if you had a number of broken ribs surley the pain would be too much. the victim tried to say that he had broken his ribs the month after the offence but his medical records show he had broken ribs at the same time as the alledged offence. what i do understand is that the cps and court did not persue this line of enquiry why i do not know. there seems to be too many things that have come out of the trial that dont add up. when an officer was asked why she didnt seize the underwear from the female she avoided the question so i am told. surley that would be the first thing you would take bearing in mind the victim stated she was bleeding heavily also there was no blood on the other clothing that the poilce did take.

[truth seeker]

sorry RF should have said North East not england didn't read the question properly

[Rights Fighter]

i am in england. when you say technicality what could that be ? i know that he told the court that at the time of alledged offence he had broken ribs as the victim stated he picked her up one handed and tossed her onto the bed before pinning her down with his body which could not have happened if you had a number of broken ribs surley the pain would be too much. the victim tried to say that he had broken his ribs the month after the offence but his medical records show he had broken ribs at the same time as the alledged offence. what i do understand is that the cps and court did not persue this line of enquiry why i do not know. there seems to be too many things that have come out of the trial that dont add up. when an officer was asked why she didnt seize the underwear from the female she avoided the question so i am told. surley that would be the first thing you would take bearing in mind the victim stated she was bleeding heavily also there was no blood on the other clothing that the poilce did take.

If the jury heard that evidence then it cannot be used at appeal. The Crown would not pursue that line of enquiry because it is not in their interests to do so.

A technicality can be a misdirection from the judge for instance. Did the defence have a medical expert to tell the jury (what common sense would tell them) that one cannot pick up another adult and throw them on a bed, with broken ribs? I can't see that would be a ground though as that would be defence criticising themselves.

Yes you are too far away for a meeting. If an appeal is being lodged then I cannot get involved at this point.

[Saffron]

Damn, I have just typed a lengthy response to this and then accidentally deleted the lot!

TurthSeeker, Rights Fighter was asking you which County you live in, not which Country.

The police and the CPS are not interested in anything that might undermine their case. This will be why they did not examine or retain any possibly contaminated clothing, or probe NeedHelp's medical records.

A "technicality" could be anything to do with the legal process - perhaps some procedure wasn't followed correctly; the judge's summing up was flawed; the prosecution didn't disclose something to the defence which would have helped prove innocence, etc etc.

As far as I understand it, there are only three reasons why an appeal could be lodged, as follows:

A "technicality" as detailed above
Fresh evidence comes to light which was NOT available at the original trial
The accuser or another prosecution witness admits to the police or a third party that s/he has lied.

If I have missed something, please let me know!

Most people who have never encountered our "justice" system think that everyone convicted of a crime has an automatic right to appeal. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Trial by jury is a complete lottery. And in rape cases the burden of proof has shifted to the defendant. The prosecution does not, no matter what anyone says, have to prove that the defendant committed the "crime". The jury is made up of ley people who quite rightly think that no-one in their right mind would fabricate a rape allegation. And let's not forget that the "victim" will usually give evidence from behind a screen or via videolink, thereby conferring immediate victim status on her/him.

Please pass my regards to NeedHelp.

[truth seeker]

back again.... i have been told that need help has not put his appeal in as yet but will do so when he is sentenced i think on 4 november. RF i dont think the defence did have anyone ( medical ) to confirm that you could not throw someone whilst you have broken ribs. the CPS tried to say that due to it not been in the defence statement then it should not be allowed.... the reason for need help not putting it in his defence statement was because the police would not tell him when one of these alledged offences took place. as it turns out the alledged victim tried to say that he did not have broken ribs at the time but had broken them a month after the alledged offence. need help did have medical records to prove this but it fell on deaf ears he even had his old employer there to confirm that he could not do any manual lifting and had to man the till at work. i have never broken my ribs but have seen people who have and i can say it would not be possible to do what was alledged. im not sure what he plans on stating in his appeal however once he does submit it i will keep you posted. i dont suppose you know once the sentence has been passed will the details of the case be released for public viewing ?

[Rights Fighter]

Media/New reporting - it depends on whether there is a press embargo (press cannot report or name the def).

I honestly cannot comment on appeal as I have never seen any paperwork and did not attend the trial - so without that knowledge I cannot, of course, form any kind of an educated opinion on that.

If an appeal has been lodged by trial counsel then it's a waiting game. it will take a few months to get to the SJ (Single Judge) who may or may not give leave to appeal.

If SJ gives leave to appeal then a few more months down the line the appeal will be heard. If SJ does not give leave to appeal then the grounds can be renewed (argued in person by counsel) but no funding will be available for that so would have to be paid for privately. If leave is granted then an application for funding would or should be made by counsel at that time.

If leave is not granted then the next (and last) recourse is the CCRC - and he cannot use the same grounds in his application to them.

Sorry to sound terse but those are the facts.

[truth seeker]

quick question if someone is shown as up at court for snetence then it shows there up for mention what does the "for mention" mean ?

[just married]

so sorry to read of needhelp's experiences.