Worried sick

[nervous wreck]

Hi,

I am a 25 year old American. 2 1/2 months ago I was in the same situation. I had retained a lawyer and then the police could not do anything to me unless they had evidence and a warrant for my arrest. If you don't have a lawyer (which you do) the police can mess with you as much as they want. I was asked to submit a DNA sample. My sex was consensual so the DNA would have been there and that would have given them evidence. Anyway, it will come down to what they have, do you know if they are trying to work under forcible rape? That is an act of violence and they would have evidence, in my case they had nothing at all. They didn't even have enough evidence to get a search warrant or to obtain a DNA sample. My guess is that the detective didn't even believe the girl, but the police have a moral and legal obligation to follow these things through.

You need to know what theory the prosecution is trying to work under. If it is force, they will need to have evidence of tears and abrasions. They can tell that in the rape kit. If they are saying he druged her then she will have a tox screen done and everything in her system will show up.

In my case, I got a call from a detective who wanted me to come in and tell him about what happend. I told him that I wasn't going to talk to him. I told him I was going to retain an attorney and he should be contact him. I never had to talk and I wasn't charged.

[nervous wreck]

Trust me. Your son's situation isn't uncommon. And I wouldn't be surprised if charges are never brought. And he has witnesses that say she kept coming around and bringing baked goods. Make sure your sons lawyer is talking to everyone and getting statements.

But, what kind of theory are the police working under? You need to find this out.

Oh, and good luck!!!

[RFLH]

I can understand how worried you must be, I have no constructive advice to offer as I don't know the legal system over there, keep posting as sometimes people that do come on here.

[Worried]

Thanks Nervous Wreck, I really appreciate your post. Sounds very similar. This so called event happened last year and in this case there won't be any DNA because he didn't sleep with her and certainly no signs of force of any kind. She stayed at their flat the next day with them all and he has flatmates to back that up, so she wouldn't be able to have self harmed herself in anyway and even if she had I doubt they would have waited a year to bring this up. I have been wondering though while reading other people's cases is how long can someone wait to have a DNA test to prove this?

Thanks - I really did appreciate your emails a lot.

[nervous wreck]

Thanks Nervous Wreck, I really appreciate your post. Sounds very similar. This so called event happened last year and in this case there won't be any DNA because he didn't sleep with her and certainly no signs of force of any kind. She stayed at their flat the next day with them all and he has flatmates to back that up, so she wouldn't be able to have self harmed herself in anyway and even if she had I doubt they would have waited a year to bring this up. I have been wondering though while reading other people's cases is how long can someone wait to have a DNA test to prove this?

Thanks - I really did appreciate your emails a lot.

I honestly think the police and prosecution will not be moving forward and charges will not be coming. She waited so long to come forward? And he didn't even sleep with her? OK well that is enough right there. No jury in the world will believe this women. And DA's won't want to tie up the courts with unwinable cases.

It really sucks that a women can make this claim and then people have to shell out cash to protect themselves.

In my case, I did sleep with her and the next day (to protect herself from her boyfriend finding out she cheated) she told the police and went to the hospital for the rape kit. What I had going for me was that there were other people right down the hall and one of them got up to go to the bathroom and saw the accuser and I sound asleep in the same bed. So that had to raise some doubt right there, as he told this to the detective.

Tell your son not to worry, if what you are telling me is true, your son should just move on with his life. They have nothing on him.

[Rights Fighter]

Juries come from middle england and the vast majority have never had dealings with the system of law - therefore (like myself) dont understand it either !! after all why should they?

Juries come from all over the UK - for smaller cases usually just from the next county.

[Saffron]

I think FG meant Middle England as in Joe Bloggs Mr Average, not the geographic location!

[Rights Fighter]

Jurors are not always made up of Joe and Jessie public - the average guy.

Police officers and judiciary are now allowed to sit on juries which could well put a different slant on things. One of PAFAA members had an appeal heard on the grounds that a police officer was on the jury (although he didn't know him personally). The defendant was a police officer - the ground was rejected.

So either way, jurors comes from all backgrounds and from anywhere.

[Saffron]

I didn't know that, RF. Thanks for putting me straight.
Incidentally, nice to see you back and offering support, Nervous Wreck! thanks for returning.

[frankgallagherwasere]

I did mean middle as in middle class, which in todays terms is usually working class. But I accept a jury would be made up of many types of people male and female managers supervisors and workers. However these people are not those who you would expect to have had previous experience knowledge and dealings with criminal law only possibly speeding fines etc etc etc

The approach of the Police/CPS/judicial is significantly different in these sorts of cases than most others - common people just dont understand the tricks and skulduggery that goes on in the background by the authorities and various agencies involved. If the defence dont highlight, question and challenge them then whose to know what methods are used to get people into the docks for the jury to judge.

This was based on a discussion I had with a close friend who has been on jury service and was AMAZED at what I/we told him - and we were not surprised at what he told us. Again something we all should listen to and learn from as its only the jury who have to be convinced if one gets to trial.

[Worried]

I just want to thank everybody for their support and helpful advice that was given on this site. It really has been a blessing having help from those who understand.

As an update, the police have dropped all charges and the girl is now in some trouble for wasting their time. We are unfortunately thousands of dollars poorer with the cost of a good lawyer, polygraph test and statements by witnesses, however I can't tell everyone how important it is to get a good lawyer. Money is nothing compared to the consequences of what these guys can go through.

Thanks once again.

[RFLH]

I'm so pleased to read that another liar is to be prosecuted. But I'm sorry that you've had to spend so much to prove your son's innocence.

I hope that she gets a suitable sentence when she goes to court.

Thank you for letting us know the outcome, it's always a buzz to see that justice has prevailed.

[Rights Fighter]

It is always good to read positive news.

Can you not sue the person concerned in order for your costs (at least) to be reimbursed?

Hopefully you can ask for this to be printed in the news so that at least people will know what she is like and are forewarned.

[Saffron]

That is great news, Worried. I am very happy to hear that the wheels of justice have turned in the right direction. Thank you for coming back to fill us in - often we don't hear the conclusion of the members we try so hard to support.

You may find that your journey is still long. Please do keep us informed, we would love to know the outcome.

Best,

Saffron x

[Worried]

It is always good to read positive news.

Can you not sue the person concerned in order for your costs (at least) to be reimbursed? .

We have considered sueing. Not sure if anyone has done that successfully. We do feel it's unfair that we've had to spend out so much money when we shouldn't have. In fact we'll be paying it off for the next 10 months with interest!

Just not sure we want to get caught up in any more legal action though and wonder if it's better just to let it go. Would be interested to hear what others think, especially if anyone has gone down that line.