What evidence do you need to arrest someone for rape?

[lawlessone2009]

My case is based in Scotland...

I attended the Police station voluntarily, was detained, questioned and charged.

The following afternoon (25 hrs later) I was 'liberated' (if you can call it that!) on Police bail JUST before climbing the stairs into the courtroom. Literally JUST before going up the stairs!

I was bailed for 1 week and to return to court and see what was happening.

My solicitor said this was unusual.

A week later and my solicitor didn't even know I was supposed to be there. Apparently the type of bail, an 'undertaking', was only heard in court on a Thursday and it was a Tuesday... The Police bail was either to be dropped or court bail imposed.

After a very very long wait the solicitor appeared, invited me into a room, read a brief summary of evidence and then I entered a courtroom for a private hearing. Court bail was approved, with conditions, and I was free to go.

Since then several things have transpired but they are detailed in my long and selfish posting:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ppy-to-discuss.


If you're as stressed and sleepless as me then maybe you'll have time to read it. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. I may also be able to have some of your questions answered by my solicitor indirectly as I will be meeting with him shortly.

You will stumble upon 'corroboration' in your searching. Don't read this as a positive, it's been corrupted beyond recognition and what previous posters have said is true. A statement and a 'sighting' of the accuser by someone a short time after is enough to have you dragged in.

I never committed the alleged crime and felt that DNA would clear my name. It came back 'inconclusive' which basically backs up my position but even this is not enough!

It seems heavily stacked in the accusers favour. There should hopefully be lots of consideration whether to continue from the CPS and Police. They may decide not to and it will be NFA (no further action). It could also go to trial where the fate of the case is left in the hands of the jury unless the CPS/accuser/witnesses make an ass of things.

At the moment it'll be a case of waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.......

I feel actually being in jail just now counting down days to release would be easier! Least then you know that although your life is at a standstill just now it will pick up again where it left off on day 'x'. Just now, day 'x' could be years and years away or a couple of days or weeks or months, it's a killer.

[lawlessone2009]

PS: If you give a general area then others will recommend a solicitor. It is paramount that the solicitor is highly experienced in the field of rape.

You may only get one chance (the trial) and it is massively important that it is taken to the extreme by an experienced legal team. It's a matter of life or jail!

[Izzy]

Izzy, you mentioned that the person who is accused comes under Scottish Law; did they have a solicitor present at their initial police interview?

If so, perhaps you could have a chat with that solicitor; they might possibly recommend a colleague who specialises in that particular field of expertise.

No, a solicitor was contacted and told he was in custody but he was questioned without one - think he was in shock and was quite happy to tell them what had happened as he had nothing to hide.

lawlessone2009, you are really kind to want to help when you are going through so much.


I don't want to put where I am from as I have noticed my thread comes up in search engines.

[RFLH]

that's fair enough Izzy, there's no pressure to disclose.

[Casehardened]

No, a solicitor was contacted and told he was in custody but he was questioned without one - think he was in shock and was quite happy to tell them what had happened as he had nothing to hide.

Hi again,

Did you mean he agreed to be questioned without one? I know that until recently in Scotland the police were able to question suspects for 6 hours without allowing them access to a solicitor, however this is no longer the case.

[Izzy]

Hi again,

Did you mean he agreed to be questioned without one? I know that until recently in Scotland the police were able to question suspects for 6 hours without allowing them access to a solicitor, however this is no longer the case.

I think I maybe worded that wrong - he was happy to answer their questions without one. As someone who has never been in trouble before he was happy to co-operate and at the end of it was arrested. After being kept in custody for two days all the evidence and statements were sent to Edinburgh, where they decided to liberate him and not put it through court 'pending further investigation'

Thats where we are up to now, living in limbo, have made a solicitor appointment to try and get some legal advice.

[Casehardened]

- he was happy to answer their questions without one. As someone who has never been in trouble before he was happy to co-operate and at the end of it was arrested.

Thats where we are up to now, living in limbo, have made a solicitor appointment to try and get some legal advice.

Yes, I do understand why he would do that; however as lawlessone mentioned earlier in the thread, now that you are getting a solicitor, it is important to consult a specialist in false accusations.

[Rights Fighter]

I don't know if this sol is still practising but he was recommended to me some time ago
I think it was George or John Burnett

BURNETT CHRISTIE KNOWLES MCCOURTS (BCKM)

53 GEORGE FOURTH BRIDGE, EDINBURGH EH1 1YH, SCOTLAND

tel: 0131 225 3456 fax: 0131 225 6543
email: mail@bckm.co.uk

[Izzy]

Thanks to both of you. I'm further north than Edinburgh, would maybe be better with someone locally? - would help if I would post where I am, sorry for that.

The solicitor I have an appointment with is a Criminal one - don't know if he has experience with false allegations but apparently has been on the go for a while.
I need to get a clear head and write down my list of questions to ask him.

Izzy x

[Casehardened]

If you are arrested, kept in custody but it doesn't go through court as they need more information/evidence, why would you arrest someone in the first place?

Hopefully Lawlessone will see this and answer, but from the English/Welsh perspective the main reasons are so you can be detained for interview (with no arrest it's a voluntary interview from which the interviewee can walk out at any time) compulsorily fingerprinted, swabbed for DNA, and bailed (with the resultant obligation to return)

It may be different north of the border.

[Izzy]

I know these are probably silly questions but I can't quite get my head around it. In Scotland-

The difference between being arrested and charged - if you don't make a court appearence after being arrested are you still charged?

Is the evidence required to arrest someone, the same as needed to charge someone?



Izzy

[fighter]

Hi Izzy,

Here one needs to be arrested and then charged before he/she has to go to court. If you dont appear in court, the hearing will continue without you and you can be jailed for not appearing.

After the arrest, the police usually gathers more evidence to decide whether the decision is No Further Action (NFA) or being charged. The CPS has to decide based on the evidences gathered against you. A person can be on bail for some months before a decision is made. Maybe the Scotland Law has a faster process? I just know arrested here is not equivalent to being charged.

I hope somebody from Scotland answers your question.

[Izzy]

Thanks for that Fighter, seems to be a bit of a difference here in that after being arrested it didn't go into court and there is no bail.

[fighter]

Thanks for that Fighter, seems to be a bit of a difference here in that after being arrested it didn't go into court and there is no bail.

yes, definitely different, hopefully your solicitor will advise you of the process; of what will be happening.

[lawlessone2009]

Hopefully Lawlessone will see this and answer, but from the English/Welsh perspective the main reasons are so you can be detained for interview (with no arrest it's a voluntary interview from which the interviewee can walk out at any time) compulsorily fingerprinted, swabbed for DNA, and bailed (with the resultant obligation to return)

It may be different north of the border.

Sorry, totally missed this thread as it's in General...

Try leaving a 'voluntary interview' and you WILL be detained. This is exactly what I attempted to do. Section 14 of some piece of legislation (can't remember which) allows then to detain for questioning if they are of the opinion of something or another. You will not be walking out without either a Police Undertaking (bail) or an initial court appearance and bail. Worst case you ain't walking out at all!

The arrest and charge are merely formalities for the cops to obtain your DNA samples, carry out a medical (if required) and hold you until someone somewhere takes responsibility for you and decides whether you're being remanded or bailed.

In Scotland the charge more or less always follows arrest. Merely two words with the same eventual outcome.

I was Police bailed to appear at court 7 days later. This was to allow, as you mentioned, some clown in Edinburgh (an EXPERT!) to decide whether to proceed or not with the charge. It's pretty much guaranteed that they will proceed as you can't be seen to be backing down so easily especially with a potential rapist on the books!

Apparently the court has to refuse bail for this type of offence now... It's not happening though as they know that rape in Scotland is a difficult charge to prove which is why they are busy changing the goal posts and also attempting to kill off corroboration entirely even though it is already pretty much dead.

Bail granted and then precognition takes place whereby the accuser and any witnesses give formal statements to a prosecutor dude. You eventually end up with copies through your solicitor which is generally where you will begin to see what the actual allegation entails.

As far as I am led to believe they have 12 months from charging you to getting the case onto the court role (present the paperwork to enable a trial).

I am not sure why the Police swapped their undertaking for Court Bail....

I am also not sure why I made a first private appearance in court (except to be granted bail!).

I've yet to see statements. Get em this Thursday...

I'll hopefully have more answers on Thursday......

Feel free to PM me just in case I miss this thread again, will attempt to remember...