WOMEN WHO STAND BY THEIR MEN ACCUSED OF RAPE

[maria]

hi saffron that just about sum's up the law doesn't it there is no justice system as far as i'm concernd regardless to either being raped or falsley accused nothing goes right where the law is concernd the police need to go back to school and learn more as far as i'm concerned so does the cps
i also think that they should bring in the lie detector and hypnosis this would i beleive clear a lot of innocent people and put the real rapist where they belong in prison the usa laws are different in every state and town that i do no i visit there often and no 2 laws are the same the people in the towns make there own laws especialy in texas

[raincloud]

I'm also not at all surprised by the findings.

In the UK, all the Police need to do for the CPS to proceed with a case is find something, however insignificant, that backs up the story. This can be (as in my husband's case), the accuser knowing the man's middle name, or a man's address. It can also be something that the prosecution will claim can only be known to the accuser if something had happened, such as the (very loose) description of something.

Obviously, all these things are open to interpretation and therefore abuse.

In the absence of evidence, where it is one word against another, and the stories are inconsistent (ie the woman said that sex occurred and the man says he doesnt know her and has never had sex with her) that case will ALWAYS go to court - because it is obvious SOMEONE is lying. The police, and the CPS DONT CARE who that is.

IT IS ONLY RAPE WHERE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IS NOT REQUIRED, AND ONE PERSONS WORD IS ENOUGH TO BUILD A PROSECUTION CASE. Even Murder charges need some physical evidence to allow a prosecution to proceed.

Imagine Ian Huntley's trial - if there was no back up evidence to prove those 2 poor girls went to the house. Supposing the whole case against him was based on circumstance not forensic proof? Would there have been a trial against him - almost certainly not!

However, circumstance only is the basis of many prosecution rape cases - no wonder only 7% that reach court get a conviction...

It is all political, and all about being 'seen' to pursue justice.

The bottom line is that no man, regardless, is safe from a false accusation.

For example, I had a meeting with my male boss this evening, that didnt start until 5.30 - most people leave by 5pm on a Friday. We were alone, in his office, no-one else within sight. It was all totally above board, and we were discussing an issue to do with a client. I didnt leave there until 7pm, when just myself, him and couple of female cleaners were left in the building.

However, there would be nothing to stop me (or any of the cleaners) reporting him for rape. Nothing to stop him being arrested, questioned and humiliated. Nothing to stop him being charged, or being dragged through the courts. It would be totally my word against his - even though I was never any closer to him than 6 feet away with a desk between us... I could do this, (if I was that way inclined) and have total anominity, witness protection, immunity from prosecution etc etc, and his life would be ruined instantly.

The only thing that would stop that process would be the accuser saying that she had lied and risked a charge of perverting the course of justice. Would she then do that - no, of course not!

Point is, decent, sane and stable people dont do this sort of thing - period. However, a very small section of society do. But, these people also have no remorse and dont care who they hurt. Most scary, they also get away with it - regularly!

Until the statutory investigation process that the police and CPS follow is changed, where they investigate BOTH side of the story, and have to substanciate or disprove the accusers story, this will continue. And lives will continue to be ruined for no reason.

[maria]

you have said almost the same as i did on another page .... keep your chin up flower something has to change when where or how i don't no but it all boils down to the same thing no justice sysyem and a money pot x

[Rights Fighter]

"IT IS ONLY RAPE WHERE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IS NOT REQUIRED, AND ONE PERSONS WORD IS ENOUGH TO BUILD A PROSECUTION CASE."

The above is quoted from Raincloud 17th Sept last year. Indecent Assault and similar issues are also "alleged crimes" that do not require evidence other than the word of the complainant.

I was so pleased to see that Greer had contributed to this forum. I attended her husband's appeal and have to say that there was not a dry eye in the very full public gallery.

I have attended other successful appeals that were brought about via Public Funding (the old "legal aid") and they are equally as emotional.

A recent one was brought about by the successful application that the accuser's background should have been made available to the jury. This was because she had had a consensual sexual relationship with the defendant lasting a couple of years. He had finished the relationship and this was her vengance. I have no idea why a retrial was ordered as there was more than just that evidence against her, but that will hopefully bring an acquittal. However, after the double jeopardy law has since been abolished, I wonder how many times that particular accuser will take her alleged attacker to trial? What a waste of public money for retrials!

[diana_holbourn]

I would imagine people will only be allowed to take people to re-trial if there's striking new evidence.

[Saffron]

Originally posted by diana_holbourn@7th April 2005 - 03:12 PM
I would imagine people will only be allowed to take people to re-trial if there's striking new evidence.

Quoted post

As a convicted criminal, you can only appeal if you have new evidence, or can prove the trial was unfair in some way.

With the abolition of the double jeopardy rule, many people who have previously been found not guilty will face retrial for the same crime. There seems at present to be no ground rules or guidelines for the Crown when they intend to re-prosecute. If anyone has any information on this, I would be interested to hear it.

[maria]

hi saffron i didn't know that once you had been tried you could be tried again, i thought once the verdict has been made they couldn't try you for the same crime twice i say crime loosely as not all people who get accused are criminals x

[diana_holbourn]

I think that at the moment, people can't be tried for the same crime twice, but that the law's about to change so people can be. I don't know when.

[maria]

hi diana i wasn't sure i have not realy had any dealings with the law before apart from what happend with my son so i wasn't sure but somewhere i read or heard that you couldn't be tried for the same crime twice x

[Guest_Jan]

Are you crazy????????

How about the FACT that 93% of rape cases that come to court in the UK end in no conviction? Are you telling me that 93% of these owmen are lying?????????????

[Saffron]

Originally posted by Guest_Jan@3rd June 2005 - 02:45 AM
Are you crazy????????

How about the FACT that 93% of rape cases that come to court in the UK end in no conviction? Are you telling me that 93% of these owmen are lying?????????????

Quoted post

Guest Jan

There seems to be some confusion over these figures.

I have heard that once the case actually gets to court the conviction rate is as high as 60%. These figures have been quoted elsewhere on this site by Baz63, CPS barrister. It would be interesting to know where you got your figures from, as there is clearly a massive disparity.

and I don't think anyone is implying that 93% of women who claim to have been raped are lying, but in our so-called "justice" system, a full trial or conviction has not been acheived simply because the prosecution couldn't prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. the problem with securing a conviction lies with the fact that often these cases are a question of one person's word against another.

There are also plenty of people who are sent to prison for crimes they didn't commit - angela cannings, sally clarke are just two recent high-profile cases. I don't think anyone who posts on this site is crazy, although a lot of us are fragile. we use this site to discuss our feelings and frustrations, and do not need to have accusations of insanity levelled at them

[diana_holbourn]

It may well be that the 7% figure is the number of reported cases that result in a conviction. Many or most of the 93% that don't are dropped before they ever get to court.

[val lavender]

Hi Jan

maybe you could find the time to register, you might be taken more seriously then.

Also, I have a personal rule that I check my facts before I bark off at people - it works for me.

If you ring the home office publications unit, or access them via the web, you can obtain a copy of HORS 196 and 293, both of which will confirm that the conviction rate of rape cases that do reach court is around the 50% mark.

However, in terms of reported cases, the actual final conviction rate is 6% due to the number of cases rejected by the police, thrown out by the CPS or where the complaint is withdrawn by the accuser prior to trial.

The question as to how many women lie about rape is an interesting one, according to HORS 196 the police reckon that 40 - 50% of rape allegations are false and I, for one, am quite pleased to see that Samantha Quigley [its all over the web so me mentioning her name cant really affect matters] has just got three months inside for her false rape allegation - "I wanted to stop my boyfriend leaving me" was her excuse - apparently the judge was not impressed though three years would have been more realistic.

Then there is the horrifying case of the eight year old from Crayford who made the whole thing up for some reason best known to herself, this can be viewed at www.safari.org.au.

If you want more examples of false allegations of rape pay a visit to the JGC Newsroom at www.kotae.co.uk - and these are just the ones that made it into the press.

Given the above facts, together with the demented woofing of Julie Bindle, Liz Kelly and Betty Moxom - together with the rest of the left wing ultra feminist movement, its hardly suprising that genuine rape victims do not recieve the support that they need and that the credibility of all reports of rape is being steadily eroded.

In respect of your enquiery as to the sanity of forum members, I dont think that any of the registered users have a problem in that department .

regards

[mol12]

Here Here, Good for you Val. I agree with you all the way. As a false accused over the years I have to live with it, I hope my accusers can live with it, along with the money they got. (JUDAS).

[karen]

Originally posted by Snoopyseed@30th August 2004 - 04:05 AM
if a women is 'crying rape', she would have to do a good job, going to report the crime, sitting thought the stament rembering every single lie she made up, being questioned over and over and over ..and over again, about every detail, whilst all the time remebering every single lie she has told so as not to get caught out, and then if she gets through all that, the CPS would also have to beleive her for them to agree it should go to court, and then she would have to 'cry rape' and remember every single detail she made in her statement all those months ago, in a courtroom and put up with everyone knowing she is a victim.

I?m not sure whether Snoopyseed is still active on this forum but I am disturbed by her last comment. The accuser is entitled to full anonymity, her name is not released to the press and she can give evidence by video or behind a screen.- therefore your statement does not make sense to me. There is no shame attached to being a victim, nor should there be. As a survivor I do not understand this secrecy. There should be a level playing field to protect the innocent. I strongly feel that should mean anonymity for all involved or no-one at all. I can only speak for myself but I would have had no qualms about looking my attacker in the eye whilst in a court of law with the protection which this provides. By hiding behind a screen it is as though we have something to hide....and maybe some women do.........