Sally Challen

[TheDarkMan]

This case is being presented to the world as a miscarriage of justice. It is anything but.

Please sign the petition which includes some background on a real miscarriage of justice, the Michael Stone case.

https://www.change.org/p/every-uk-ci...-sally-challen

Also check out the International False Rape Timeline and feel free to send me any submissions.

[298]

This case is being presented to the world as a miscarriage of justice. It is anything but.

Please sign the petition which includes some background on a real miscarriage of justice, the Michael Stone case.

https://www.change.org/p/every-uk-ci...-sally-challen

Also check out the International False Rape Timeline and feel free to send me any submissions.

Hi TDM

Not sure what this has to do with a false accusation of rape?

Then while I may support one or both causes I cant see any link between the two cases?

[Peter1975]

If I may....

Everyone is entitled to post here and TDM is welcome to share his views and use this as a platform for bringing attention to a cause if he thinks our small readership could help. It is up to those that read to make a judgement and act if they wish to.

TDM has a long history of being interested and vocal about false allegations of rape and the connection here is miscarriages of justice and how they can happen when political agendas or a sheer lack of independent evidence in grey ( or new ) areas of the law can lead to innocent people being imprisoned or conversely, guilty people escaping justice.

Personally, I'm not convinced about the Challen case, on the one hand, it would seem to be premeditated murder and on the other, I can understand someone being driven to the end of their rope and acting out of character - she is supported by both of her sons after all - I tend to be in favour of acquittal where there is enough doubt - something that can all be too sadly lacking with the widespread misunderstanding of Blackstone's ratio. Murder is not the same as manslaughter or grounds of diminished responsibility and it should always be the burden of the prosecution to prove otherwise.

I haven't even taken a cursory glance at the Stone case, I thought Bellfield had confessed tbh but I am always happy to be educated.

The law is never perfect, never has been and never will be.


PS; It may help if TDM provided a link to his painstakingly researched false allegations timeline

[TheDarkMan]

Challen case

Challen's corrupt supporters have claimed now she was raped by her late husband, an allegation that was not made at the trial.

Bellfield did not confess. And neither did Stone! The Bellfield confession was manufactured, but he is still a far better suspect than Stone.

[QUOTE=Peter1975;74055]If I may....


Personally, I'm not convinced about the Challen case, on the one hand, it would seem to be premeditated murder and on the other, I can understand someone being driven to the end of their rope and acting out of character - she is supported by both of her sons after all - I tend to be in favour of acquittal where there is enough doubt - something that can all be too sadly lacking with the widespread misunderstanding of Blackstone's ratio. Murder is not the same as manslaughter or grounds of diminished responsibility and it should always be the burden of the prosecution to prove otherwise.

[298]

[QUOTE=TheDarkMan;74056]Challen's corrupt supporters have claimed now she was raped by her late husband, an allegation that was not made at the trial.

Bellfield did not confess. And neither did Stone! The Bellfield confession was manufactured, but he is still a far better suspect than Stone.

If I may....


Personally, I'm not convinced about the Challen case, on the one hand, it would seem to be premeditated murder and on the other, I can understand someone being driven to the end of their rope and acting out of character - she is supported by both of her sons after all - I tend to be in favour of acquittal where there is enough doubt - something that can all be too sadly lacking with the widespread misunderstanding of Blackstone's ratio. Murder is not the same as manslaughter or grounds of diminished responsibility and it should always be the burden of the prosecution to prove otherwise.

OK apologies i did not know the allegation of rape in the Challenge case, this make it relevant to the forum.

My second point still stands

The two cases are not related so need two separate posts otherwise its confusing what we are being asked to support

Do you see what I mean?

G :-)

[Peter1975]

Again, I have not followed either of these cases in any detail,

A rape accusation made rather late in the day would seem to be a rather desperate and telling measure but for balance, I can think of more than one case that I have been familiar with where seemingly genuine cases of harassment and controlling behaviour have been escalated to late allegations of rape; all of these led to an acquittal as far as I remember - Nobody deserves to be accused of a sexual crime when they are innocent but at the same time, no one deserves to be ignored until they make a rape claim - the difficulty that will always remain is a dearth of real evidence where crimes happen in private unless phone records etc are both preserved and examined - something that may be better dealt with thanks to the likes of Liam Allen and the newspapers campaigning surrounding the shocking lapses in his case.

And again; I am in favour of acquittal where reasonable doubt exists which would seem to apply to both cases here - something I wish the police and CPS would take on board, even if it means forgetting all about hitting their targets.

[298]

Again, I have not followed either of these cases in any detail,

A rape accusation made rather late in the day would seem to be a rather desperate and telling measure but for balance, I can think of more than one case that I have been familiar with where seemingly genuine cases of harassment and controlling behaviour have been escalated to late allegations of rape; all of these led to an acquittal as far as I remember - Nobody deserves to be accused of a sexual crime when they are innocent but at the same time, no one deserves to be ignored until they make a rape claim - the difficulty that will always remain is a dearth of real evidence where crimes happen in private unless phone records etc are both preserved and examined - something that may be better dealt with thanks to the likes of Liam Allen and the newspapers campaigning surrounding the shocking lapses in his case.

And again; I am in favour of acquittal where reasonable doubt exists which would seem to apply to both cases here - something I wish the police and CPS would take on board, even if it means forgetting all about hitting their targets.

On the face of it the Sally Challen case has many similarities as the Stuart Howarth case both turned up with a hammer and killed their abuser

• Both have circumstantial evidence that rape was a factor of the abuse.
• Both were guilty of manslaughter however one set of lawyers understood mental health better.

i.e. if you have been abused over a long period you are rightfully scared of meeting your abuser again - both took along a hammer for protection (that ended up being used to kill their 'alleged' abuser).
In both cases this was initially considered premeditation, therefore charged with murder not manslaughter.

SC has been through the court and acquitted, as a minimum this indicates significant doubt in the original conviction. In this case I would trust the acquittal courts judgment.

Was there a bias in court as Sally was female and Stuart male?
Did the jurors find it easier to believe a man who had been raped by a man would resort to murder or that a Woman should obey her husband?

Jurors are unpredictable and courts dangerous places!