Why is key evidence not allowed to be used #injustice #guiltyuntilprovenguilty

[bundt]

Hi All,
I’m a new member and I’d like to hear thoughts, comments and experiences of others regarding key evidence, in sexual assault cases, being withheld. And, if it hadn’t been withheld there would be a not guilty verdict.
The story;
A mate was accused, by his partner, of ripping her underwear in an attempt to see if she had had intercourse with someone else having been out for the night. The law being the way it is these days, to protect “the victim”, does not allow questions to be asked of the victims previous sexual history, so the fact that she had sex that night, with someone else, COULD not be discussed. The fact that no alternative reason for the ripped underwear could be explored, because previous sexual history is not to be discussed, has meant that my mate was found guilty. He has had no real fight to prove his innocence as the Cps / police did not test the underwear as a defence. They have taken her word and he has been unable to prove his innocence because his guilt has already been proved by his girlfriend saying he caused the rip.
It is an absolute travesty. The girl in question has tried to have another guy done before too. Why are people so malicious....!!!!!
Anyone else experienced this kind of injustice? It seems so common now that guys are guilty simply on the word of a female. What happened to proving guilt....
Thanks in advance.

[Casehardened]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

I was going to add 'and to the real world!' as many forum members will agree that (a) the accuser starts out from a position of being believed and (b) the accused is obliged to prove innocence rather than the prosecution proving guilt.

However in your friend's case it would be interesting to know what the charge against him was; i.e. common assault or sexual assault?

[I've moved your post as it sits better in the 'Justice' section of the forum]

[bundt]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

I was going to add 'and to the real world!' as many forum members will agree that (a) the accuser starts out from a position of being believed and (b) the accused is obliged to prove innocence rather than the prosecution proving guilt.

However in your friend's case it would be interesting to know what the charge against him was; i.e. common assault or sexual assault?

[I've moved your post as it sits better in the 'Justice' section of the forum]

Thank you for that. 😊
Yes the “real world”
Unfortunately because touching underwear is “sexual”, even though no sexual motive was mentioned, the charge is “sexual assault”. He will now be on the sex offender register for 10 years. Simply unbelievable.
On the night in question, my mate and his girlfriend were arguing because her phone video showed her sexually touching a guy on the Dance floor and messsges from her friends who couldn’t find her. She disappeared for a while. I wonder if her underwear was ripped during her period of absence??? When my mate went to bed, she was already in bed, he could then see her underwear was ripped AND a lump of tissue hanging out of them too! As you can imagine the argument escalated and in the end my mate left her. The next day she reported him to the police and the whole nightmare began.
None of what went on during the evening, before she got home, was allowed to be mentioned. The law does not allow it, as she is entitled to do what she wants. Which I agree. However, as her actions could have directly caused the rip, how can the law refuse to investigate this.....
surely this gives “reasonable doubt”.
I’m having a rant now! Ha! It’s just so wrong. I feel sorry for men, the power women have these days is truly scarey.

[Casehardened]

Thanks for the fuller explanation and I'm afraid I'd assumed that it was your friend who ripped her underwear; I can now understand yours & his feelings about the verdict.

Was the trial in the Mags or in CC with a jury?

[bundt]

Thanks for the fuller explanation and I'm afraid I'd assumed that it was your friend who ripped her underwear; I can now understand yours & his feelings about the verdict.

Was the trial in the Mags or in CC with a jury?

How ironic.
You can see how easy it would be for a jury to decide his guilt too, having not been presented with the facts of what went on prior to her getting home, simply because the law doesn’t allow the “victims” sexual history to be discussed. Unbelievable really.
The verdict was non-unanimous, but that doesn’t help my mates situation now. He’s one of the nice guys you know. Even his barrister apologise that “a lovely guy like you has found himself in this situation.”
So sad.
I don’t even know whether one can challenge the CPS for having not allowed the extent of the details that night to be presented. Or even the fact that no forensics were conducted on the underwear to prove that the rip was caused by sexual intervourse action rather than an act or ripping in what was described as “jealous rage”.
Where does a victim of injustice go with this kind of challenge to the law? 🤨 nowhere, anywhere? Anyone know?

[Casehardened]

Appeals against verdicts passed by juries are problematic; i.e. that the jury was mistaken in their interpretation of the evidence presented to them is not a ground for appeal (it's usually necessary to find evidence which wasn't available at the time of trial to be able to make a successful appeal)

Having said this, some forum members do have experience in mounting appeals and may be able to offer advice; to this end there's a couple of further questions: What sentence was passed to accompany the 10 years on the SOR? Did the defence barrister offer any advice on mounting an appeal at the conclusion of the trial?

[Casehardened]

Having had a cup of tea and a little more thought, one avenue of appeal would be if the judge has misdirected in not allowing the prior events of that evening to be put to the jury. This would be a complicated and expensive route to take so it really depends how anxious he is to get the verdict overturned (hence my query about the sentence)

In the first instance he would need to get a transcript of the trial (at a cost!) and find a solicitor who specialises in appeals to review this (again probably at a cost) However if he is then given leave to appeal, legal aid should be granted for the actual appeal.

[bundt]

There is an appeal already because, in addition to the nightmare this girl brought to this guy, he was unfortunate enough to receive a biased judge. I cannot begin to tell you how awful he was, openly, in court.
The appeal has been lodged on these grounds and therefore it is an unsafe verdict. Whilst appeals are hard to get passed, the barrister is very optimistic in this case that there are very good grounds.
However, even if the appeal is accepted (and the conviction quashed), it would be a great outcome but it doesn’t prove his innocence. It will be because of the judges bias.... if that makes sense.
Challenging the lack of investigation into the actual evidence is still the way to prove innocence. Very frustrating.

It’s all hanging on a thread. Poor guy, dealing with being imprisoned in a wing with some serious sexual monsters. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

I appreciate the advise re: legal aid for the appeal though, I will pass it on.

[Casehardened]

Great news that an appeal is underway though it's unfortunate, to say the least, that he's having to manage it from inside.

Thankfully he's got a good mate who will doubtless support him through all of this this

Usually there is only one shot at an appeal so it is important that he has full confidence in the solicitor who puts it forward and that they have experience in this procedure. If he hasn't yet selected anyone there are personal recommendations from members in this thread:

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ist-solicitors

There have been some high-profile cases recently where the police and/or CPS have failed to disclose evidence to the defence so there may be some mileage in highlighting the lack of forensics (but in apportioning blame do remember the ultimate responsibility lies with the woman making a false statement, for whatever reason, to the police!)

From the number of views there is some considerable interest in this case so it would be useful, if you are able, to eventually post up the outcome of the appeal.

[bundt]

Thank you for the response and link. I will certainly have a read and will post re: the appeal outcome.

In answer to your question he got 18 months. Most likely will serve 9. In the grand scheme of things this is not a disaster ours sentance; however, for someone innocent it is pure hell on earth.

The appeal will only challenge the conviction, as the sentance, he was told, is lenient.

The defence barrister advised, during the court case, that there were grounds for appeal based on the judges behaviour. However, given the nature of the judges attitude he waited until after sentencing to lodge the appeal as he felt lodging the appeal prior to sentencing could anger the judge (as it is all about him) and therefore influence a harsher sentance.

You a right about apportioning blame. The buck certainly stops with his thrn fiancé and her ludicrous stories. A narcissist, my mate couldn’t see he was in a toxicology c relationship. It’s a shame he wasn’t aware earlier that she tried this kind of stuff by with a previous boyfriend too. Again,someone hung that can’t be mentioned in court. Tut tut at the injustice of it all. There is light at the end of the tunnel, I just hope it stays shining.
Thanks again.

[bundt]

As I said, The appeal has been lodged.
Someone from the appeals called my mates solicitor asking was it legal aid or private. Why would this matter? Is it relevant to whether it’s accepted or rejected? Seems a strange question.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Peter1975]

Haven't the foggiest tbh bundt but if I was to take a stab in the dark it's possibly to do with who is paying for transcripts as scrutinising the judges remarks form the basis of the appeal.

Legal aid will not pay for transcripts for a fishing expedition but can pay for them if there was an issue at trial that needs to be explored.

[bundt]

Thank you for your response, it makes sense.

[Franticwithworry]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I've no more advice to add to the excellent posts already. It boggles my mind that the incident you describe was considered non-admissable and I do hope that the appeal is successful. What a nightmare for you and your friend.

[Fusiondoe]

Please keep us updated on the appeal.

Very interested to see how this goes