What should be changed in the system and how should we go about it?

[stalked]

Great points Stalked, any suggestions on how to get more members to contact their MP?

Good question! Most MPs hold surgeries, but it can be difficult to find time in busy lives to plan in a visit. I have been meaning to for several months, but procrastinated until recently... I think it also requires some thinking about what to present so that an encounter doesn't come across as a rant! I'm very clear that I want to talk about protecting innocent victims of allegations from what amounts to state persecution - not denying justice to victims of sexual violence.

There will always be false allegations in this area - despite what certain commentators will have us all believe. For me, the challenge for society is to be able to make it possible for genuine victims to come forward, accepting that some FAs will jump on the bandwagon. Currently, innocent families are bearing the brunt of dealing with FAs through disruption to family life, careers, anxiety, funding the cost of defence + all the other impacts that people are experiencing. Ideally, some of this burden could be taken by society at large, though more support and re-imbursement of legal expenses. Of course, this doesn't help in any way those falsely accused who find themselves innocent in jail after a trial.

Stalked

[Franticwithworry]

I think if you do a little 'post stalking' and find threads where people have been NFA'd or found not guilty and you put a post on there, you will attract their attention when they get a message to say that the thread is added to.

It's very tempting for people who have finished with the court system to want to just get their heads down and get on with their lives, and for people going through it to not want to rock their boat till its done.

In the beginning, I was very upset and angry and very keen to ask lots of questions, but I realise now the wisdom if not being too visible too soon. I'd be very interested to know, first of all, what kind of reception you get from your MP. At the moment I'm doing what I can to be informed and educated but I can see the wisdom of pooling resources, even if some of us want to remain anonymous for the time being. Having got as far as meeting with your MP will you let us know how that goes? If there are things I can do anonymously for the time being, I'm willing to help and other people waiting for decisions might be too.

2tea2 was working on some statistics and I was trying to find out how to make a Freedom of Information request a couple if days ago in connection with that but got sidetracked. I'll get back to it.

[stalked]

Yes - I will report back. I'm interested to see how he will respond - it will be a test of his character for me. This issue directly affects, thankfully, a very small proportion of the population - though, of course, every person is vulnerable (they just don't know it). So it is not a vote winner. But it is the duty of our elected representatives to protect citizens from the abuses of state power and, if he deserves his electors' support, he will recognise that.

Stalked

[Itsnotallbad]

I think if you do a little 'post stalking' and find threads where people have been NFA'd or found not guilty and you put a post on there, you will attract their attention when they get a message to say that the thread is added to.

It's very tempting for people who have finished with the court system to want to just get their heads down and get on with their lives, and for people going through it to not want to rock their boat till its done.

In the beginning, I was very upset and angry and very keen to ask lots of questions, but I realise now the wisdom if not being too visible too soon. I'd be very interested to know, first of all, what kind of reception you get from your MP. At the moment I'm doing what I can to be informed and educated but I can see the wisdom of pooling resources, even if some of us want to remain anonymous for the time being. Having got as far as meeting with your MP will you let us know how that goes? If there are things I can do anonymously for the time being, I'm willing to help and other people waiting for decisions might be too.

2tea2 was working on some statistics and I was trying to find out how to make a Freedom of Information request a couple if days ago in connection with that but got sidetracked. I'll get back to it.

I think it would be good to gather some statistics via the office for national statistics along with freedom of information requests.

Aswell as that test the water with other members like you've said.

[Bene]

[QUOTE=AmandaF;63861]That's exactly the same for the falsely accused, even when it's not an offence of a sexual nature.

In countries where compensation was stopped, rape allegations fell by 80 ourse ]







Amanda I agree with you (FA) should be regarded as victims and receive compensation just like any other victim of a serious crime. What I didn't agree with was the comment that was geared torwards victims of rape or abuse, 'comments like if you have been abused why would you want compensation what would money do, counselling will be more helpful'. My problem with ignorant comments like that is that it fails to take into account that in certain circumstances where the injury is so serve that counselling will not be helpful. And secondly I found it very patronising and insensitive, for someone who I assume has never been a victim of a sexual assault to tell those that have well you shouldn't get compensation go get counselling instead. That implies as I've said before that rape victims don't suffer serve or long term problems. Imagine how you would feel if I or anyone else said oh Amanda you shouldn't be compensated for your trauma or loss go get counselling instead that would be more helpful to you?

I would never tell you that or any other (FA) that even I have a heart) my only issue was with that comment was in response to that comment and nothing else.
Regardless of whether this was posted on the FA) or victim of rape section, this is an open forum open to everyone, I have the right just like everyone else on here to voice my opinion on a post especially since the comment was directed torwards genuine rape victim. If everyone else has the right to personally attack me constantly than please believe me I have the right to respond to whichever post I like.

I can't comment on other countries regarding their compensation schemes as I don't know) but I feel like on this forum there is a lot of false information regarding the how the CICA scheme works. Take it from someone with first hand experience of it, it's not as easy as people make it out to be.
The CICA system is far more complex than you can imagine and it's not guaranteed. In most cases you need more than just a reference number to be compensated.

And my final point on this matter is that in an ideal perfect world everyone who has committed a serious offence should be punished. But unfortunately we don't live in an ideal perfect world, we live in a ugly world filled with countless of injustice. No amount of money in this would ever compensate to being raped. I would do anything to face my rapist in court anything) but it would never happen.

What makes me laugh is how the overwhelming people on here think the system favours the victims and how fair and easy it is for us. Perhaps for some but from my personal experience it's not the case, my case fell down to my word against his and the police sided with his and didn't even sent to the case to the cps. And I'm not a rare exception. I can appreciate that the system isn't great for those that have been accused but isn't too great for victims either in most cases.

The system isn't great for either party, major reforms need to happen in order of achieving greater protection for both the victim and the accused.

[Itsnotallbad]

[QUOTE=Bene;63981]

That's exactly the same for the falsely accused, even when it's not an offence of a sexual nature.

In countries where compensation was stopped, rape allegations fell by 80 ourse ]







Amanda I agree with you (FA) should be regarded as victims and receive compensation just like any other victim of a serious crime. What I didn't agree with was the comment that was geared torwards victims of rape or abuse, 'comments like if you have been abused why would you want compensation what would money do, counselling will be more helpful'. My problem with ignorant comments like that is that it fails to take into account that in certain circumstances where the injury is so serve that counselling will not be helpful. And secondly I found it very patronising and insensitive, for someone who I assume has never been a victim of a sexual assault to tell those that have well you shouldn't get compensation go get counselling instead. That implies as I've said before that rape victims don't suffer serve or long term problems. Imagine how you would feel if I or anyone else said oh Amanda you shouldn't be compensated for your trauma or loss go get counselling instead that would be more helpful to you?

I would never tell you that or any other (FA) that even I have a heart) my only issue was with that comment was in response to that comment and nothing else.
Regardless of whether this was posted on the FA) or victim of rape section, this is an open forum open to everyone, I have the right just like everyone else on here to voice my opinion on a post especially since the comment was directed torwards genuine rape victim. If everyone else has the right to personally attack me constantly than please believe me I have the right to respond to whichever post I like.

I can't comment on other countries regarding their compensation schemes as I don't know) but I feel like on this forum there is a lot of false information regarding the how the CICA scheme works. Take it from someone with first hand experience of it, it's not as easy as people make it out to be.
The CICA system is far more complex than you can imagine and it's not guaranteed. In most cases you need more than just a reference number to be compensated.

And my final point on this matter is that in an ideal perfect world everyone who has committed a serious offence should be punished. But unfortunately we don't live in an ideal perfect world, we live in a ugly world filled with countless of injustice. No amount of money in this would ever compensate to being raped. I would do anything to face my rapist in court anything) but it would never happen.

What makes me laugh is how the overwhelming people on here think the system favours the victims and how fair and easy it is for us. Perhaps for some but from my personal experience it's not the case, my case fell down to my word against his and the police sided with his and didn't even sent to the case to the cps. And I'm not a rare exception. I can appreciate that the system isn't great for those that have been accused but isn't too great for victims either in most cases.

The system isn't great for either party, major reforms need to happen in order of achieving greater protection for both the victim and the accused.

Hello,

Although i can appreciate that you have strong opinions (like many others on this forum) and no i cant appreciate the effect of experiencing a sexual assault because i've never experienced one.

But as the original poster i would appreciate it if you would stay on topic please. This post relates to how defendants (fasley accused or not) are treated by the justice system up until the jury returns a verdict and how the system should be changed to be more fair to them. The inpact of the justice system on actual victims of sexual crimes,i feel,is better suited in another part of this forum and not on this thread.

Although i do appreciate reading an opinion from the other side of the coin.

Thanks

[Casehardened]

But as the original poster i would appreciate it if you would stay on topic please. This post relates to how defendants (fasley accused or not) are treated by the justice system up until the jury returns a verdict and how the system should be changed to be more fair to them. The inpact of the justice system on actual victims of sexual crimes,i feel,is better suited in another part of this forum and not on this thread.

Although i do appreciate reading an opinion from the other side of the coin.

Thanks

Thanks for raising this, unfortunately Bene has a track record of using other member's threads to put her own opinions and agenda forward rather than starting her own thread (which folks could then ignore or respond to as they wish)

I have therefore, as previously, put her on Mod Preview (meaning I get to see her posts first before they hit the forum!)

[Rights Fighter]

Thank goodness for that! Sadly when people see her posting the usual bile they tend not to post at all for fear of yet another lecture.

For the record I know of many genuine victims who were told they could receive compensation but declined, as they felt that this was some sort of reward for being abused. It is entirely up to the genuine victim as to whether they wish to apply and they really do NOT benefit from being lectured from one vitriolic person's point of view.

I know of some alleged victims who claimed their reward for lying and then spent it on taking their 'witnesses' on holiday as a thank you for helping them with their windfall. Others have spent it on drink and drugs and it's suddenly gone, so another in their group does the same thing, and on and on it goes.

I advocate the removal of financial compensation and suggest it is substituted with top notch therapy. A genuine victim would accept that with open arms and heart. Therapy can be life changing - for the better. Money doesn't buy happiness of course.......

Yes, it can make a person feel secure in the knowledge that the choice is not 'heat or eat' as it is for some of us, in winter. But it really does NOT compensate for a traumatic childhood. I know that from personal experience. I greatly benefited from therapy over the years thankfully on NHS before those services were drastically cut.

There's lot that needs to change. At the moment the innocent are wrongly convicted and sometimes the guilty walk free. I don't pretend to know what the answer is. However, I do believe that they need to start by removing a primary incentive to lie...... The fnancial incentive......

[wakingnightmare]

Thank goodness for that! Sadly when people see her posting the usual bile they tend not to post at all for fear of yet another lecture.

For the record I know of many genuine victims who were told they could receive compensation but declined, as they felt that this was some sort of reward for being abused. It is entirely up to the genuine victim as to whether they wish to apply and they really do NOT benefit from being lectured from one vitriolic person's point of view.

....

Not fear RF no point engaging in discussion. I've seen it too many times before on here.

She denied making an assumption in response to me but admits in her last post that she did so!

[Lilyput]

RF hope you don't mind me saying but I think it's really nice that surviving abuse yourself hasn't made you jaded and you still see false allegations for what they are and understand the seriousness of them.

I'm fed of up people saying oh well it is unfair but rapists walk free too like the effect of being FA'd isn't a life destroying devastating thing. Innocent people are prison, children don't have a loving parents, mothers have read heartbreaking lies about their sons in the press, families are separated forever, careers built up over year, gone in weeks. It is NOT just collateral damage in catching sex offenders, it is liars being give money and tea and sympathy to help police statistics and it's a huge huge injustice.

[Rights Fighter]

You have no idea what **** I had. However it helps me to see when people are lying too, if that makes sense

[AmandaF]

Unknown to the banned user, an awful lot of us here know both sides of the coin only too well.

If I had to choose between being sexually assaulted and a false accusation FA wouldn't be my first choice because in my experience more damage is done by that.

Things do need to change- mainly about this "You will be believed " because even now it's selective

[stalked]

Well... I met my MP this morning (Conservative, rural). I had 15 minutes with him and used a case reported earlier this week in a local paper to demonstrate the experience of an innocent man, falsely accused and found not guilty. I then went through my suggested improvements. He received my comments encouragingly with lots of nods of agreement and supporting responses. It was clear that I was speaking with someone who had already recognised the problem and he mentioned a few cases if his own. I didn't go to the meeting expecting any tangible action. This was just to expose the hidden burden of suffering by innocent families.
And a related development, this lunchtime, I got a call from the OIC investigating my stalker and FA. He confirmed that the CPS has finally decided to go to charge 9 months after her initial arrest. So all in all a good day.

Stalked

[Itsnotallbad]

Well... I met my MP this morning (Conservative, rural). I had 15 minutes with him and used a case reported earlier this week in a local paper to demonstrate the experience of an innocent man, falsely accused and found not guilty. I then went through my suggested improvements. He received my comments encouragingly with lots of nods of agreement and supporting responses. It was clear that I was speaking with someone who had already recognised the problem and he mentioned a few cases if his own. I didn't go to the meeting expecting any tangible action. This was just to expose the hidden burden of suffering by innocent families.
And a related development, this lunchtime, I got a call from the OIC investigating my stalker and FA. He confirmed that the CPS has finally decided to go to charge 9 months after her initial arrest. So all in all a good day.

Stalked

Great news Stalked. Its only natural to want to fight back,and now you're one of the few who can. I hope it works out and the truth is revealed.

In regards to the MP,it would be nice if he/she could direct to a movement or an MP who is advocating this and then maybe your words might have more impact? Just a thought but great step forward by actually seeing one.

Thanks

[Itsnotallbad]

You have no idea what **** I had. However it helps me to see when people are lying too, if that makes sense

Experience of both sides,how ever horrific,leads to sound judgement and therefor better advice. If we didn't have that diversity then this forum would become a very one sided and pointless place.