CHANGE THE LAW - take away parental rights and responsibility of paedophiles and sex offenders

[Rights Fighter]

I note that the petition is quite "old" now. Had it "had legs" it would have moved further on by now, so I think this might be why Jamesche has posted it up in order to get signatures. I understand that.

Of course, in a forum like this, the petition will cause controversy due to the fact that most members mainly support those who say they are falsely accused of sexual offences.

However, I do understand the ethos of the petition.

From my own experience, for instance, I most certainly do believe that adoptive parents should be checked and double checked, as to motive for adoption, and also to continue SW visits to adoptive homes right up until the age of 18 years for the adoptee, if they stay with the adoptive parents until that age.

Speaking personally, I "ran away from home" aged 16, brought back by the police as it was "illegal" to leave home at aged 16 in those days.

I left home aged 17 , legally. I will not explain what happened, as it was a mixture of many things, but believe me, I do believe that all evidence in the case, and I mean all evidence, should be before any child protection worker and panel.

[AmandaF]

If your wrongly accused the truth is their ! You just need to find it ! And I'll make the presumption that the falsely accused minority is worth not having this right for my children not in place and that of the thousands of abused children yearly in this country !

If you're wrongly accused yes the truth is there, but on-one wants to find it, see it or hear it and once convicted it's a life sentence. Only 100 people are acquitted in the UK each year as especially sexual abuse are difficult to appeal. The jury only has to hear "child abuser" and the defendant is instantly guilty.

Having seen/ taken part in/ been quite traumatised by arguments from both sides one thing is quite clear- that the emotions and frustrations we all experience are largely the same. And the more false accusations made, the less the voices of the genuine will be heard.

There is never justice in these cases.

[Rights Fighter]

If your wrongly accused the truth is their ! You just need to find it ! And I'll make the presumption that the falsely accused minority is worth not having this right for my children not in place and that of the thousands of abused children yearly in this country !

AmandaF

If you're wrongly accused yes the truth is there, but on-one wants to find it, see it or hear it and once convicted it's a life sentence. Only 100 people are acquitted in the UK each year as especially sexual abuse are difficult to appeal. The jury only has to hear "child abuser" and the defendant is instantly guilty.

Having seen/ taken part in/ been quite traumatised by arguments from both sides one thing is quite clear- that the emotions and frustrations we all experience are largely the same. And the more false accusations made, the less the voices of the genuine will be heard.

There is never justice in these cases.

the falsely accused minority is worth not having this right for my children

It has been noted on here and in PAFAA that when people seek assistance from support groups before charge or trial, they seem to be more likely to end up with NG verdicts.

Jamesche - is there any chance of ever remotely considering you trying to put yourself in the situation of a guy, who. for instance, who has been falsely accused of CSA on is own baby / young child, when the other half has decided to either get the child to make the false allegation or has accused him of a rape that never happened?

A recent example

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...do-the-damage/


False allegations of sexual abuse really do happen.

And false allegations not only completely ruin the lives of people who are involved, entire families and friends of families, can be and are seriously affected.

[Megane2015]

I totally agree with you Amanda.

We are victims as well. We have to carry on with what is left of our lives trying to comfort our children who have had their dads ripped from them by lies. My husband will always be a dad no matter what other people think. We know the truth and I will not stop until justice is done. This will probably take forever as the law stinks on this topic. One person states child abuse and they are believed not questions asked.
People can be very blind to the fact that people are wrongly convicted especially on this subject. But we all have our own ways of dealing with things and all have our own opinion. I will not have anyone tar my husband with this brush, he is a good man treated very badly by the whole system. We are all waiting for him and then we have to try and live as normally as possible, but there will always be some idiot waiting to gob off without knowing the full story, but I will stand proud next to my husband and so will his sons.

Rant over.

[Casehardened]

I wonder if mods or Admin could tweak the settings to prevent a link being posted without words before or after it, explaining what it is.

Especially from Newbies....

I have emailed CH and hopefully he will sort it out and give it its own thread. We can then discuss both sides of the contents of the 2nd petition on there.

I can move/delete posts but tweaking the settings is beyond me; maybe Webmoo would consider this.

In the meantime, if there is majority agreement for this action, I could simply delete any such petitions. (in this instance I was guilty of looking at the post and assuming the petition was in a similar vein to that of the OP's and not clicking on the link to check....have slapped my wrist for this omission!....however I should add the explanatory title, which I have now inserted, was not in Jamesche's op)

[AmandaF]

RF- I read it somewhere in one of those linked articles I think- will try and find it and post the link.

[Jamesche]

AmandaF











It has been noted on here and in PAFAA that when people seek assistance from support groups
before charge or trial, they seem to be more likely to end up with NG verdicts.

Jamesche - is there any chance of ever remotely considering you trying to put yourself in the situation of a guy, who. for instance, who has been falsely accused of CSA on is own baby / young child, when the other half has decided to either get the child to make the false allegation or has accused him of a rape that never happened?

A recent example

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...do-the-damage/


False allegations of sexual abuse really do happen.

And false allegations not only completely ruin the lives of people who are involved, entire families and friends of families, can be and are seriously affected.

So last night I gave you a small snipet of what had happened to my family agreed ? Seeing as we're so well educated on child sex abuse here ? I'm sure you will have worked out the after events of the disclosure from my son ? No well it was a female abuser do female abusers work on their own ? According to some idiots they don't and for that reason whilst in a child protection conference some sneaky social worker leans back and says James how long did you know it was going on for ! And guess what the entire room was filled with females I was the only male. Because it's written that female offenders only work with an accomplice or are coerced into child sex abuse! Can you see where I'm going how the emphasis change toward myself do I know how it feels to be accused ? I'm sure this answers your question ? Even though the police had more than enough evidence certain people organisations still don't want to except that female offenders do ! Work on their own but will make every effort to drag a male into the equation . Did my sons stepmother my now ex wife try to have me convicted for marital rape yes she did was I on bail for six months yes I was I walked straight out of the police station phonned my closet friends and friends and told them straight away to see who'd stick by me . Was the truth out their it was because I proved it and all charges dropped cause for not one minute did I not pursue for the truth it paid off with her being found guilty of purgery and recieving an extra 9 months consecutive ! So do I know how it feels yes I do . Do I believe that the mother to my child should have parental responsibility to my child no she shouldn't have any rights !

[Rights Fighter]

This is the step mother who abused your son? If so, why doesn't the real mother have rights?

Yes, I've been quite angry when I've read that a female child abuser is said to have had an accomplice, or had been "groomed" by a male to commit offences. That suggests that women cannot make they own choices - good or bad.

I hope the ex gets a very "warm" welcome in prison. That's if she was sent there of course. Some get away with it scot-free. Something wrong somewhere, when women demand equal rights but when it comes to serious offending, they sometimes get a slap on the wrist. If this had been a male offender he would have been sent to prison for a long time. That is so wrong.

I am so sorry to read your story Jamesche. I hope your family can recover from this as quickly as possible.

You were fortunate to be NFA'd. Many people are charged on no evidence other than the word of the complainant. I've taken on appeal reviews and have been shocked how the CPS have even come to a decision to charge, and then the jury appear to have totally ignored evidence that demonstrates innocence.

One such case, a complainant alleged rape and buggery several times a week from age 10 to 16. A day or two after the last alleged rape and buggery, she was medically examined and was proved to be a virgin with no injuries consistent with sexual abuse. He is serving a sentence that is basically life - IPP. When I read through the paperwork I had to wonder whether the jury had been kidnapped by aliens and replaced with dummies.

[Jamesche]

This is the step mother who abused your son? If so, why doesn't the real mother have rights?

Yes, I've been quite angry when I've read that a female child abuser is said to have had an accomplice, or had been "groomed" by a male to commit offences. That suggests that women cannot make they own choices - good or bad.

I hope the ex gets a very "warm" welcome in prison. That's if she was sent there of course. Some get away with it scot-free. Something wrong somewhere, when women demand equal rights but when it comes to serious offending, they sometimes get a slap on the wrist. If this had been a male offender he would have been sent to prison for a long time. That is so wrong.

I am so sorry to read your story Jamesche. I hope your family can recover from this as quickly as possible.

You were fortunate to be NFA'd. Many people are charged on no evidence other than the word of the complainant. I've taken on appeal reviews and have been shocked how the CPS have even come to a decision to charge, and then the jury appear to have totally ignored evidence that demonstrates innocence.

One such case, a complainant alleged rape and buggery several times a week from age 10 to 16. A day or two after the last alleged rape and buggery, she was medically examined and was proved to be a virgin with no injuries consistent with sexual abuse. He is serving a sentence that is basically life - IPP. When I read through the paperwork I had to wonder whether the jury had been kidnapped by aliens and replaced with dummies.

Yes the maternal mother of my son has rights but I want the rights stripping from my ex wife because we have a child together fo whom on release from her 8yr 9month sentence will try and fight to get access to my daughter. Which I will not let happen ! I got nf'd on he basis that I fought every second of every day until the police looked at my case properly and saw it for it really was, that she was trying to start a tit for tat which could of weakened my sons case plus I had the press on my side which helped.
To be fair I think defence lawyers and the cps need to look at things differently by which I mean, that your accused you go through the process of justice the big day comes still pleading your innocent but then get told to go guilty and not put the witness through the ordeal of a trial because you'll get longer than the mandatory 5 years if you do so ! This in my black and white world is blackmail ? What should happen is that a trial should not hold predjudice on the type of offence seeing as evidence can be given via video link albeit still emotional to the alleged victim. Social services work on the basis that even if the police were to drop the complaint due to say lack of evidence , not their is no suggestion at all the accused was involved in anyway social services still look at you as though you are guilty ! Both my children were under child protection they were useless no therapy for my son or me I found it myself for us. I wrote a letter of disengagement to their demands and set out the reasons why,they soon sat up I got my own social worker guess what he was male and my children had their own. I changed their thought pattern and said lets go to court and see what a judge has to say about it all ! Plus whilst doing this I also found out which solicitors they used in these cases I got in their first and instructed therefore taking away one of their advantages anger and hate will destroy you sit down take a breath educate yourself about what you face collate sit back let everyone else speak then go for the kill !

Speaking about your case you say the victim was a virgin ? But you spoke of buggery how did this not show in a medical report ?

What we also have to be careful of in these situations is partners not wanting to face the truth knowing deep down that their partner has committed the alleged offence as it is typical that parents in these types of cases stick together and gang up on the victim something that the police thought would happen in my case as my view on marriage was very strong with the old school values they were quite shocked when they realised this wasn't the case, I'm not saying that the above statement covers everyone but it is well known to happen.

[Rights Fighter]

Yes the maternal mother of my son has rights but I want the rights stripping from my ex wife because we have a child together fo whom on release from her 8yr 9month sentence will try and fight to get access to my daughter. Which I will not let happen !


I got nf'd on he basis that I fought every second of every day until the police looked at my case properly and saw it for it really was, that she was trying to start a tit for tat which could of weakened my sons case plus I had the press on my side which helped.


To be fair I think defence lawyers and the cps need to look at things differently by which I mean, that your accused you go through the process of justice the big day comes still pleading your innocent but then get told to go guilty and not put the witness through the ordeal of a trial because you'll get longer than the mandatory 5 years if you do so !


This in my black and white world is blackmail ? What should happen is that a trial should not hold predjudice on the type of offence seeing as evidence can be given via video link albeit still emotional to the alleged victim. Social services work on the basis that even if the police were to drop the complaint due to say lack of evidence , not their is no suggestion at all the accused was involved in anyway social services still look at you as though you are guilty !


Both my children were under child protection they were useless no therapy for my son or me I found it myself for us. I wrote a letter of disengagement to their demands and set out the reasons why,they soon sat up I got my own social worker guess what he was male and my children had their own. I changed their thought pattern and said lets go to court and see what a judge has to say about it all !


Plus whilst doing this I also found out which solicitors they used in these cases I got in their first and instructed therefore taking away one of their advantages anger and hate will destroy you sit down take a breath educate yourself about what you face collate sit back let everyone else speak then go for the kill !


Speaking about your case you say the victim was a virgin ? But you spoke of buggery how did this not show in a medical report ?

What we also have to be careful of in these situations is partners not wanting to face the truth knowing deep down that their partner has committed the alleged offence as it is typical that parents in these types of cases stick together and gang up on the victim something that the police thought would happen in my case as my view on marriage was very strong with the old school values they were quite shocked when they realised this wasn't the case, I'm not saying that the above statement covers everyone but it is well known to happen.

I can't read blocks of text as I have problems with my eyes, due to hours on end in front of the monitor. I've separated it out so I can see what you have written.

I'm really pleased to see that your ex got a long sentence (longer than women usually do). With regards to SS it is unlikely that they will entertain any application for residency given her serious offending. You have you head screwed on properly so I am confident you will be ready for any potential fight, when the time comes.


People get NFAd for a number of reasons. Often they haven't had to do a single thing, and it's been NFA'd either by the police or CPS due to "insufficient evidence". Some have provided concrete evidence of lies however, unfortunately, that rarely results in the false accuser being prosecuted. Some have paid out a lot of money to private client solicitors and got NFA'd and some have paid out, and have still been charged and gone to trial. Most have had to rely on the "free" duty solicitor. Many have been NFA'd (looking at members cases here) and some were charged.

Swings and roundabouts. There is no hard and fast rule at all.

Not sure what you mean by "the mandatory five years". There are sentencing guidelines for each offence and the judge has a discretion to go towards leniency or harsh. So for instance rape can attract anything from five 1/2 years to life, depending on the circumstances.

SS are right to be cautious after an NFA. Why? Because most NFAs occur when there is "insufficient evidence to proceed". That means of course that sometimes the guilty get off scot free, and the innocent can breath a sigh of relief, although NFAs can be resurrected years into the future if fresh evidence to support it comes to light. Often this includes a further allegation from another person to support the first one. Innocent people get caught up in that too.

By the same token, while innocent people are wrongly convicted, sometimes the guilty are wrongly found not guilty. So sometimes SS are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It often comes down to whether the client will "work with SS" or play awkward. Working with them tends to be the best way to go.


With regards to the case I mentioned, the jury were actually told that the complainant was still a virgin and that (according to statistics taken from cases where there were convictions) sometimes there are no injuries at all. Instead of exercising common sense the jury was bamboozled by numbers/figures etc.

Taking their "statistics" from convictions means of course, they are taken from ALL convictions in such cases, and some of these will be wrongful convictions. So they are massaging the statistics using cases where sometimes the defendant was innocent.

I agree, some people are in complete denial of their partner's or family member's true offending. I've had a few of them come to me down the years, where the family protests the innocence of the defendant but the paperwork shows that in fact he probably did "do it". I let those cases go. I don't have enough time to mess about with people who are "a little bit guilty".

I was sent a letter from a guy in prison (via a 3rd party) who admitted the indecent assaults but was maintaining his innocence of a rape. He was most upset when I sent the message back that I only take on cases where I believe the guy is 100% innocent. Given I don't charge for my time he had a nerve to send a complaint back!

I can usually see guilt or innocence, or partial innocence once I've got stuck into the paperwork, talked to family members and have got a good handle on the background of the case. It's a murky business and sometimes very depressing.

[AmandaF]

Bowing out of this one- it appears that all falsely accused who aren't NFA'd must be guilty.

I had no clue what to do or where to turn when we were accused/ charged, didn't know such forums existed.

nine months after conviction the truth is finally coming to light.

Too late for us

[Rights Fighter]

Bowing out of this one- it appears that all falsely accused who aren't NFA'd must be guilty.

I had no clue what to do or where to turn when we were accused/ charged, didn't know such forums existed.

nine months after conviction the truth is finally coming to light.

Too late for us

I am so sorry AmandaF. I didn't mean my post to read as you seem to have understood it. I have checked what I wrote and I cannot see that I have suggested that the genuinely FAd who are not NFAd are guilty.


I said:

SS are right to be cautious after an NFA. Why? Because most NFAs occur when there is "insufficient evidence to proceed". That means of course that sometimes the guilty get off scot free, and the innocent can breath a sigh of relief, .......

And

By the same token, while innocent people are wrongly convicted, sometimes the guilty are wrongly found not guilty..

I have changed the highlighting above from my previous post, (in response to Jamesche's post), as I wanted to restore the balance.

Not all people who are NFAd are innocent. Not all people who are NFAd are guilty.

Not all people who are found NG are innocent. Not all people who are found G are guilty.

The highlighting now relates to the falsely accused/innocent people.

Hope that clarifies it for you. So sorry if my words upset you.

[AmandaF]

Just to comment on here for clarification- it wasn't your comments RF.
I have to admit to being ultra sensitive at the moment so am taking a slight step back.
Thanks for YOUR clarification and once more, very helpful advice

[Rights Fighter]

No worries. To be fair, it does sound like the OP has been through his own terrible nightmare too, which will explain his anger and one-sided view. Hopefully he will learn from other people's experiences on here and see that things are not all black and white.

I just hope he and his children are ok.