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  • The Police Caution prior to interview

    http://thejusticegap.com/2011/12/extreme-caution/

    ‘You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.’


    Fairly straightforward you may think, but what does it actually mean? This is the wording of the caution which must be given to a person suspected of having committed a criminal offence before they are questioned. Failing to do so could mean that any answers given to those questions might be excluded from being used as evidence against that person.


    As a lawyer advising arrested persons in the police station on a daily basis, explaining what this caution actually means is the most important aspect of my role. I have to find a way of explaining it to the very young, the very elderly, the mentally disordered, persons for whom English is not their first language, and sometimes its a very difficult task. Sometimes, it’s impossible, and that’s the driving force behind why I do my job.


    This is how I explain what those words mean to my clients… bear with me as it’s quite involved, but vital that my clients understand so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not to answer questions in their interview.




    Like the Forth Bridge

    I don’t tell my clients what to do or say (regardless of what the police think), I give them all the information and it’s for them to make the final decision, as it’s one they may have to feel comfortable with for a long time to come. ‘You don’t have to answer the questions, you can remain entirely silent if you wish, or reply ”no comment”. This is because you are entitled to have the case proven against you, you do not have to convict yourself by your own words.



    But, if you have a defence (and I will advise you if you do), you should consider putting forward that defence now. If you do not, and your case goes to Court, and the first time you mention your defence is in Court, then the magistrate is entitled to think, or the judge is entitled to tell the jury, why is that? Wouldn’t an innocent person want to tell the police at the first opportunity that they were innocent? And they might think that you’ve made up that defence in the meantime, and that what you’re saying is not true. You are perhaps less likely to be believed if the first time you mention your defence is in Court.’


    Quite wordy, isn’t it? A bit like the Forth Bridge in that by the time I’ve got to the end I need to go back and explain the first part again. The trouble with this caution is that the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Code C 10d) says that if appears it that a person does not understand the caution, the person giving it should explain it in their own words. In practice, the caution is always broken down and explained by the interviewing officer, however, there is no standardised form of wording for that explanation, and many officers get it wrong, wrong enough to completely change the meaning.


    They often imply that if a suspect refuses to answer questions in their interview, and gives an explanation in court, the court is likely to decide that they were dishonest, not ‘may’ come to that conclusion. At this point of course it is necessary for me to apply the correct interpretation. I don’t say all these officers are deliberately being disingenuous, but I do find it incredible that they do not receive better, and ongoing training.




    It’s there for a reason, officer

    You may wonder why I make a fuss over the precise wording. The interview can be a highly charged situation with all the odds stacked in the favour of the police. The detainee may be vulnerable, withdrawing from drink or drugs, injured, scared, and inevitably desperate to be released from custody. They may have pressures not admitted to, fear of co-defendants, or of what the police or their families may think about the circumstances leading to their arrest.



    They may be vulnerable in unseen ways, with personality disorders which make them overly liable to confess, or wish to ‘please’ their interrogators by agreeing to suggestions. So yes, I am picky about the wording of something which might amount to a pressure to confess, upon people who are not able to withstand that pressure. If the powers that be didn’t want suspects to be allowed to remain silent, they wouldn’t have left it in the legislation. It’s there for a reason, officer.
    People Appealing Convictions of Sexual Offences ~http://www.pacso.co.uk

    PAFAA details ~ https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-people-aga...ions-of-abuse/

  • #2
    That's very interesting. To be honest when you're in that situation, you just don't hear the words, I know I didn't. Mainly because I was supposed to go for 'a chat'. It never crossed my mind that I'd be arrested and cautioned for something that my ex was supposed to have done - in fact I don't think I've heard of anyone else that has.

    Perhaps I just have a guilty face!
    And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. Then made the world round .... and laughed and laughed and laughed ..

    Comment


    • #3
      The caution means nothing to me. Today, the aim of the police is to get you convicted, and they are there to collect 51%-plus of any evidence which gets them there.

      Answering questions from the police is just a way for them to elicit information that can then be added to, or corrected from, the original allegation.
      It's important to understand that when they investigate an allegation, they are not there to sift the truth from the lies. They are there to find enough to sustain the initial allegation. Only.

      I found this the hard way. In 2005 the other party fabricated a threat purportedly sent by me to him via MSN Messenger. In fact, I had received several comments from him, which I ignored.
      I tried to phone the OIC to report that I had been contacted by the other party, but she was "unavailable." Later that day I was arrested on the charge of intimidating a witness.

      The other party had created a Word Document and inserted fake threats in between his genuine MSN Messenger missives, to give the impression that a two-way threatening conversation had taken place between me and him.

      Thinking if I explained what went on I'd be okay, I answered all the questions. When the police produced his evidence, a log of the his MSN Messenger, I could see straightaway that it was fake. It was missing vital information that a genuine Messenger log would contain, namely the text "Message Log For" in the top left corner, "Page x of x" in the top right corner, and at the bottom should be the file path pointing to the file's location within the computer.

      All of these were missing from the other party's "evidence" and I explained this to the OIC, who stated that she wasn't familiar with MSN Messenger, or Instant Messaging. I suggested that she run it by someone who WAS familiar, and they would see for themselves who was telling the truth.
      She didn't bother. She merely placed me in front of a magistrate the following day and had me remanded into custody. It took four months for it to seem odd to the CPS that the OP's computer had not been seized from day one, and that he had conveniently binned his computer in order to cover up the fact that he had fabricated evidence.

      In my opinion, you being remanded or being on bail is not dependent upon you proving or showing your innocence; it's upon the police either having the evidence against you, or believing they have.
      So, answering questions from police in my experience is a total waste of time. I will answer them to the courts instead, where I can explain my experience with the police.
      Last edited by LS; 16 January 2012, 01:54 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        That's very helpful appeal stuff LS. Thanks for that....
        People Appealing Convictions of Sexual Offences ~http://www.pacso.co.uk

        PAFAA details ~ https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-people-aga...ions-of-abuse/

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm trying to post up a picture of the Fake log and a Genuine one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't because this may become evidence for appeal.....

            Email them to me please
            People Appealing Convictions of Sexual Offences ~http://www.pacso.co.uk

            PAFAA details ~ https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-people-aga...ions-of-abuse/

            Comment


            • #7
              hi LS are you going for appeal ?
              just read your post .... all i can say is this is that was terrible not to follow that up what a disgrace.......

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              • #8
                Thanks Gem. Yes, it not only beggared belief that the OIC failed to follow up the validity of the "evidence", but when I complained to the IPCC they ruled that she hadn't done anything wrong.

                If that's how things are "done" by the police, then I spit on them all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  good for you LS .....that.s about right with the police just found out from our local DC i can.t have my pc back because they have got wind of my son.s forthcoming appeal.
                  what have they got to hide i wonder !!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gem View Post
                    good for you LS .....that.s about right with the police just found out from our local DC i can.t have my pc back because they have got wind of my son.s forthcoming appeal.
                    what have they got to hide i wonder !!!!!!
                    Thanks an interesting way of putting it RF and much more informative than what my duty solicitor offered. She said something along the lines of 'it basically just means you don't have to answer the questions if you don't want to'

                    One of the things that's plagued me since day one is the fear that she advised me incorrectly when she told me to go 'no comment'
                    I was talking to the officer in charge today, who informed me that the case has now gone to CPS, even though he's yet to question people on my side and receive my fiancee's statement that solicitor Chris Saltrese helped her write. He said 'This could have been chucked out without CPS involvement if you'd given us your side' and 'All we have is the accuser's statement, her mum's statement and statements from some of her friends. And the fact that you said no comment'

                    Reading this reinforces my belief that I did do the right thing however.
                    "Be sure your sin will find you out"

                    Numbers 32:23

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                    • #11
                      Well, the upshot of it all is that you have several choices in interview.

                      1. Answer all questions, and take a gamble on if you're going home on bail or going to prison on remand. On top of which, plod have all info necessary they need from you to collaborate with your accuser to get their stories straight.

                      2. Offer a prepared statement of events and go No Comment to anything further/no responses whatsoever to questions.

                      3. Go No Comment, and take your chances in court (only for the bravehearted).

                      Bear in mind that what you say has little to do with the decision to bail or remand, charge or NFA. That's purely down to what the police either have, or think they have, on you.

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                      • #12
                        Ha, taking my chances in court and being brave hearted certainly wasn't in my thoughts when I said 'No Comment'
                        I was just hoping that they didn't have enough evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction and that I didn't want to risk giving them anything that could be twisted or used against me.
                        "Be sure your sin will find you out"

                        Numbers 32:23

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Faith View Post
                          This could have been chucked out without CPS involvement if you'd given us your side'
                          As if he would have been the one to make the decision. It's my understanding everything goes through the CPS these days.

                          And even if the final say was down to him, like he's gonna give up the chance of another conviction on his promotion record.
                          I'd have just one thing to say to him, a la Duke Nukem: "Here Piggy Piggy."
                          Last edited by LS; 21 January 2012, 01:04 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quite.
                            My inclination is now to think that because he is still trying to persuae me to speak, he doesn't think he has enough as it stands...
                            They do come out with some drivel. And I think, had I not gone no comment, I would have been easily caught out by them. Back then I thought the police went out and caught the baddies and fought for justice...Psssssssht!!!
                            "Be sure your sin will find you out"

                            Numbers 32:23

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, he's trying to elicit anything he can because he's probably got a very weak case. If he hadn't, you'd have been charged the same day as arrest.
                              That's unfortunately the way they entrap the naive, unsuspecting public who have been brought up with the mistaken belief that the police sift out whether the allegation is valid or not.

                              Of course, people forget you don't actually have to reply to their questions - you can elect to answer those during questioning in the dock. Firstly, they depend on the fact most people don't want to let it get that far, and secondly they dwell on those words that it may harm your defence if you don't answer their questions.
                              In truth, now that it's clear there's precious little to be gained from giving them ammunition to twist against you, you're actually safer either giving no comment whatsoever, or giving a prepared statement and still going no comment.

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