New rule: You may not doubt someone's truthfulness.

[webmoo]

Hi all,

We've had a few instances of this happening recently so we have decided to implement a new rule as follows:

You may not doubt someone's truthfulness.

It is a part of the ethos of this forum that we assume everyone is genuine and everyone is telling the truth. We accept that some people do lie, and some people do come on for fun and/or to stir up trouble. We also accept that some people come on to try to cause upset, to help the guilty, or to try to cause prejudice etc. However, there is no foolproof way of telling whether the person is genuine or not. Thus, it shall be assumed that all posters are genuine and telling the truth.

If you feel that they may not be genuine, please simply do not reply.

Posting comments such as "Are you telling the truth?", "I think you are lying." or "How do you know your friend is telling the truth?" are not permitted. Users posting comments such as these will be warned and the comments will be edited or deleted.

As usual, if you have any comments regarding this rule, please feel free to discuss them by replying to this thread. I always value feedback.

[frankgallagherwasere]

Perception of guilt

There is also a very serious issue over what one understands of being guilty, either of their actions or that the law is being applied accurately. I met many people whose "crimes" were not wrong BUT the law stated it was inappropriate and therefore their crime was simply a technicality. Also of course there are many others who see nothing wrong in what they did and do not understand or recognise the fact they were guilty. And of course some simply refuse to accept what they did WAS wrong.

Some of the charges against some people are simply hilarious when you understand the circumstances, torture and kidnapping being 2 that spring to mind, the use and application of these sometimes is simply abused... Boy George anyone remember??

But ignorance plays a part in many of these actions/crimes when someone simply didn't know they were in the wrong, the majority of people think the age of consent in the UK is 18 when in truth its 16 subject to the age of both parties when allowances are SOMETIMES given.

I know of one guy who got 9 months for a playfull smack on a "friends" ass - thats simply incomprehensible - especially since he argued she had done it first - but of course her witness stated otherwise. Bring back Benny Hill !!!!

[Rights Fighter]

How do you know the inmate was telling you the truth?

I have heard so many stories from guys I support who believe everything they have been told by fellow inmates.

[frankgallagherwasere]

There is one thing about being inside you don't believe anything anyone says BUT you sure can believe them more than what you read about anyone in the press and media - we could all agree on that one.

Being on a VP wing is an experience, as I have said many time, some are truly embarrassed and sorry for what they have done, some can't stop talking about their interests whilst others are more withdrawn and basically normal.

Having been myself through this countries judicial system I know what tricks they pull and just how inaccurate charges and accusations, suggestions and damn right sensationalist they can make cases sound, when in truth its a load of cobblers. erm yeah like my case !!!

Anyway besides that, you do make some close friends inside (pad mates and work colleagues), you spend enough time with people you get to know them, and things slip, some do change their story whilst others expand with what are reasonable details one could understand and accept. As Ive said many times over 30% of inmates are innocent of them some take guilty pleas cos there silly (understandable in some cases) whilst many are simple technicalities where the laws are stupid the rest maintain innocence !! (not all of those are actually innocent, their often simply incapable or not prepared to understand the truth and consequences of what they did and yes there are a few of them too)

But I have a trick and thats applying some rules that show whether one is right or wrong - and thats a listening ear and a methodology thats proven to work - SWOT. The tool the crown use to stitch so many of us up with !!

Strengths Weaknesses Opportunities and Threats - Mitigate anything that might/could prove one is innocent so they get their convictions.

Except I have used it to help me/group/team assess whether a project is deliverable or not and what if any issues might need further information. I have used this for projects worth as little as £200,000 (as the Project Manager) to projects worth £640m where I was a stream project leader for my department !! It is not a toy it is a proven valuable and VERY successful methodology when understood and applied properly. Its an analytical comparison modeling thingamajig. Its used with RFP and RFI documentation "request for proposals" and "request for (further) information" often used by business in a tender process.

Actually its a pain in the xxxx cos it usually leaves you with more questions than answers, but then thats its purpose.

A project manager can deliver any project once they have the knowledge and experience, the methodology doesn't change only the project subject - all they need is the right caliber of people around them to deliver it.

[wessex]

Well said webmoo,none of have a crystal ball,but it is nice to know you can actually come here,and be believed.

[frankgallagherwasere]

The whole purpose of such forums is to not judge specific cases, specific details but to provide assistance, support and guidance. The guidance can also be to put one straight about a specific law - even if its a bad one as so many are !!!

I think you would find anyone who was falsely accused or aware of the national issue or even those convicted would be the most understanding of anyone in society. However we can also be the most outspoken against those who seek sympathy understanding and mitigations for what are true crimes. Remember many of us have been inside (even just on visits) met face to face and lived with literally thousands of convicted people - not all are bad and not all are good !!

BUT we are all treated the same way inside and out so we are never allowed to forget who put us here.