Hello Ladies & Gentlemen from Beds

[Mr B]

Good day to you.

I am now also an involuntary member/victim of being FA'd of CSA. 48 Living in Bedfordshire. The usual story. Wife FA's CSA (Dec 2015), within 3 weeks of arrest divorce proceedings. Within 4 weeks libelled & slandered. Within 12 weeks NFA's as no substantive evidence (No medical whatsoever & No ABE).

Wife going for 100% of assets with a Non Mol thrown in to boot.

Lovely it is. But I suspect fairly typical.

Living out of a suitcase.

Kindest regards
Mr B

[Casehardened]

Welcome to the forum,

But glad that you won't need technical advice* (just tea, sympathy & understanding?)

*re the FA rather than the impending divorce proceedings!

[Mr B]

Thank you for the welcome to this most involuntary of situations.

Dumb question, but with the carnage that is happening - is there an active movement to change the law that has traction? If not, I am keen to start one re false & malicious accusations in divorce.

Kindest regards
Mr B

[Franticwithworry]

No question here is a dumb question.

I don't know of anything as specific as you are looking for. Lots of people are fired up with enthusiasm for action in the early days of an accusation but then the enormity the task if changing anything becomes clear.

I did come across this new petition this evening though, which you may be interested in signing -

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/163731

If you take some time to trawl through the forum you'll come across a few threads that call for action and there maybe things going on. I'd like to actively do something useful in the respect of campaigning too, but I'm wary of putting my head above the parapet until matters involving my man are concluded.

False accusation do many things including making one cautious and cynical, as if I wasn't cynical enough already.

[Mr B]

Thank you for the reply. I understand the caution. This is not a flash in the pan though. A child will suffer 80 years on the planet as a consequence of this. If that is not worth the struggle I do not know what is.

For me though because of the alleged libel & slander it does make sense to be the "poster boy for the effects of FA. It just seems the situation is ignored as those who suffer the consequences just want to forget & move on. Moving on is fine, forgetting well I cannot readily do that.

Women got the vote because of brave female souls protested & in some cases actually dying for their beliefs. No so long ago. Fighting is not for everyone I accept & timing has to prevent complications with legal matters in flight.

I would however be interested to survey membership & gather ideas on how best to proceed. Co-ordination being the key to support success against a much bigger establishment. However modern social media does give us some advantages in the asymmetrical challenge we face.

I am sorry to see / expect more individuals join our ranks,

On a personal note & forgive my ignorant question, but I expected 99% of the membership to be male. So how do women end up here? I thought the law actually was highly favourable to the female gender. My STBX appears to be getting away with everything, despite competent counsel.

So what causes women to end up here?

Kindest regards
Mr B

[Franticwithworry]

I agree with all you say, and have been giving much thought to how best to proceed when the time comes; how to garner support from those affected. I'd be glad to discuss this with you more.

Recently accused celebrities, Paul Gambacinni, Sir Cliff Richard and an MP whose name escapes me at the moment (Nigel Someone?), are beginning a campaign to ensure that people are not named in the press before charges are brought. Sir Cliff is suing the police and the BBC, who made such a media circus of the search of his house. Personally, though I applaud the start, I don't think that this goes nearly far enough. Complainants are not victims until there is proof that they are so, and the CPS and police should end this 'culture of victimisation'. Accusers get anonymity for life so the accused should get anonymity until a guilty verdict is brought in. We need to get back to 'innocent until proved guilty'.

There is a brilliant article linked on this forum by a human rights barrister, again her name escapes me (Helen Someone), who talks of the feminisation of sexual crimes and the erosion of men's human rights. She is spot on but no-one is listening.

All that said, nothing is being said about revenge, regret or manipulation accusations, all which appear on this site. It's heartbreaking to read of situations like your own, where a man's character is destroyed for material gain or to rob a children of their father. It's heartbreaking to hear of men accused because their girlfriend moves on to another relationship and feels she has to explain having a previous partner, or a woman regrets a one night stand. It's heartbreaking to hear of teenaged boys whose early sexual experience becomes a nightmare when a girl has used sexual experience inappropriately or has to face angry parents. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of reasons why men and boys are accused.

Why are women here? We are women who support our husbands and partners and are 100% sure of their innocence. We are women who are dealing with the fact that their husbands or partners have been wrongly convicted. We are mothers who are desperately trying to help sons, teenagers and older, who are falsely accused. We might be sisters or other relatives too. And one of the most supportive and active members, who works in the field and has vast experience, is RightsFighter, a woman.

Often, in these situations, the accused men cope best in ways that don't include seeking support on a forum. The whole family is affected by these devastating accusations and it's often the women who gather information and evidence. Sometimes it's all their men can do to get through the day. For the ones who are lucky enough to keep their jobs, there may not be so much time to scour forms for information. By getting support and exchanging information here, some women are better able to support their men, and it helps men here to know that not all women do these things.

We believe in your innocence too. We need suffragists and suffragettes to deal with this. It's ruining lives and costing the country unnecessary millions.

Sorry for the long post, but your enthusiasm is infectious.

[Mr B]

Thank you for the reply. Let me see if I can structure my response to the points your raise.

[1] How to garner support? I used to be in my prior life (before the FA) heavily involved in a Club. The club was very benign & its subject is not relevant. To engage a dormant local membership I used www.surveymonkey.com - free 10 questions. Typical response was locally 33%. I used the same technique (this time with a paid subscription) for some 30 questions on a national survey (response rate was 60%).
So if there are sensible questions asked (will take some thought to prepare) you can get a good feel for the stated opinion of the population.

Now how to manifest that opinion in a manner that cannot be ignored (as the law Police CPS etc.. & MP's are very good at looking at what they want rather than what they should) is another matter entirely.

Consider the "wisdom of crowds". In short a US submarine sank. The US Navy did not know where. They recruited a rational collection of individuals & posed the question "Where do you think it is?" Net result, they were very close indeed. Hence, I fully support finding out what the forum users think sensible options are & how to progress them & more importantly prioritise them. To defeat the establishment view I believe we only need to great a critical "threshold" of interest/publicity & public opinion will do the rest. Tai - Chi but in a legal context. At present we are very much isolated. Hence post JS I would be interested to garner the groups opinion on how the FA message can be reconciled with the sensible sensitive support to an individual who has been subjected to abuse. What ideal tools should the Police be given with which to execute an investigation more sympathetically for ALL concerned IF they were diligent & operating to a long lost / sadly missed, sense of decency. The subtlety that is required is very granular indeed. I suggest we would benefit from a Goldilocks campaign - not too hot, not too cold, just right. How do we get that? Survey is the first step. The Wisdom of Crowds...

Then ask for remit (from the forum) to reach out to support groups that work with individuals who have been the real victim, see how we can work together. I do not believe they would deliberately target a gender for FA if they were aware of the high numbers involved. They may not consider it a problem...There is a way. Just needs some thought. Standing together with a mutual supporting argument will present better.

There are man haters like there are mysogynysts of that I am sure. However the centre of gravity of a group operating in this area is unlikely to be that extreme. This is not a gender issue - but a personality disorder / mental health (see later)

[2] Celebrities: Usually financially resourced but isolated by fame. They have generated interest & yet, been impugned by it. I would suggest liable & slander laws (weak though they are) can be successfully used by this group. FYI 70K to bring libel as a private client - double that costs if "no win no fee" & if you win, you will still have to pay 30-50% of YOUR costs on summary assessment (23-30k). Typical award (damages) being in the region of 50K.
So Celebrities can afford a form of justice. Normal people cannot I suggest

Let's consider reaching out & seeing the appetite when we have a coherent priority list / approach / plan formulated. Celebs will more likely deal with a organisation of 100 or so people than deal with 100 individual requests for advice etc. If the group approach is responsible, measured & considered, then credibility will not be an issue.

[3] Had a look for the Human Rights Barrister article. No direct hits yet.

[4] When I was FA's I asked & sought help from prior workmates etc. One said "If you did not do it Mr B, then the allegation is being motivated. So what is the motivation". That had me thinking.
I also reached out to the Samaritans. The call taker said after I told my 6 minute tale of woe "Think about it from her {the FA} perspective". Now there was an initial reaction to that I can tell you. However there is also truth. The FA's thinking as if you were the FA. Hence I reached a synergy with mental health. I refer you to:

www.shrink4men.com

My FA is my wife. I have reasonable grounds to suspect exhibits traits similar to a Borderline (BDP) & narcissistically disordered personality (NPD). Note:due attention to libel laws in the UK. Hence the valuation phase & then devaluation phase leading to FA & resentment that I caused the situation when in fact I did not. The projection, gaslighting etc being very typical. Of course I only know this now as I have had 6 months thinking about why. I have the answers, they are deep in her past & nothing to do with me. However my daughter is picking up the bill. I have 30 years on the planet - she has another 80. So who will pay the bigger price?

1 in 5 people suffer from NPD/BPD. Around 1 in 5 divorces are "high conflict". related? I think the co-incidence is compelling. In my case being "nice naïve & typically non-confrontational" I was perfect fodder. Things are changing though (another time)

Revenge, another motivator. Misplaced & projected. Using a wrongful conviction in divorce results in an ability to obtain 100% of the convicted individuals assets. Tell me that is not a motivator in my case (it is, for the avoidance of doubt).

[5] Proposed changes that would of helped me? Immediate cessation of bail IF there is no medical evidence and IF there is no ABE evidence. The continuation of bail (for another 10 weeks) was cruel & allowed the libel & slander to go on unabaited whilst my computers were investigated. No justification for that I would say...

Considering some of the reports on this forum I got processed very efficiently. Devastating though when it is your wife that is the FA.

[6] Lawyers cannot comment on the law. They are very happy to smile & take money. My child's private schooling was based on having a low cost base. Now a lawyer's child will have the opportunity for that schooling instead circumstances will deny my child the opportunity I have worked for 26 years to create, all because the FA wife is greedy. Once again, who losses? Hence the Law has no overt interest in change. However they are well aware of the deviance from natural justice & equity. There is a discrete private interest but not one that can be articulated as it would jeopardise a career.

Some thoughts. Hopefully not a rant. But some ideas (perhaps). I defer to the forum & those characters who have been around this subject for a lot longer than I.

Kindest regards
Mr B

[Franticwithworry]

You clearly have a wealth of experience that will be useful to draw on. Drafting questions and conducting a survey is a sensible start. There is a thread that I will look for to refer you to, in which someone asked for suggestions of what they would like to see changed. I contributed to the thread and there were lots of other suggestions. One repeated thought was that the compensation motive should be removed. Wives aside, many women involved in casual relationships are motivated by money. There were other things too and as I said, I'll look for the thread later.

Here is the link for the article I mentioned - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar..._mobile-bottom - I'm sorry I got the name incorrect. The writer is Barbara Hewson, not Helen.

You did indeed get processed quickly. Police forces are so variable in how and why they do things, and once the CPS get involved, the timing is anyone's guess. The very historical - decades old - accusations seem to get put on the back burner and left while more recent allegations are processed. We are a year in the waiting.

One thing to remember as well is that though there are a number of members here who have gone through the process and been given Not Guilty verdicts or NFA letters, they don't necessarily log in every day. It may be a number of days or even a week or two before everyone who might be interested in your suggestions has seen your thread. Even then, as I'm discovering with another topic which has severely affected me, getting other people motivated can be a difficult task.

One thing I would like to put out here - I'm not sure it will be wise to pursue the idea that all or even many FA's have mental health issues, even though it may be true. That dilutes their responsibility, and though their actions may be rooted in narcissism or some sort of personality disorder, that's a loophole I would not like prosecuting counsel to exploit in order to a sole the accuser in any way. Narcissism isn't a 'get out of jail free' card or an excuse for appalling behaviour.

We seem to have developed a culture in which any action can be portrayed as abusive if someone simply decides so, even the most innocent, even decades later. I'm not keen on adding 'I didn't mean to tell vicious lies and it's not my fault,' so that a supposed 'victim' can get a double dose of sympathy.

[Mr B]

Thank you for the link. Will review.

I will have a good think.

Re mental health issues driving false allegations. I would suggest that NPD/BPD contribute to explaining why an FA was made by my wife, however the do not excuse it in any manner whatsoever. In the 6 months I have been analysing my own situation, this has been made very very clear by www.shrink4men.com.

Whilst it is not applicable to all cases may I commend Dr Tara J. Palmatier who can be reached at admin@shrink4men.com

The understanding I (belatedly) developed explains why this event came to pass. If I can understand why, then I can accept the reality & move on. Moving on means making sure the next nice naïve & non-confrontational character does not suffer my fate so easily. Fighting to see my daughter too & stop the FA repeating the same circle of life experiences that is being re-created (deliberately stopping there as people may become identifiable)

It really is hard being being hit twice (FA & Divorce based on the FA) twice in these circumstances. I deliberately have not used the word victim to maintain the clarity of the definition. No crime has been identified.

I appreciate the inertia on getting things like a survey going. However if it is open to all, then over a 3 month time frame I would suggest we will get all the likely respondents. If an email was sent out (I do not know if the forum permits this) then that may help. I would suggest 20 considered responses would give a good initial steer. Just my thoughts though...

Kindest regards
Mr B

[Casehardened]

I appreciate the inertia on getting things like a survey going. However if it is open to all, then over a 3 month time frame I would suggest we will get all the likely respondents. If an email was sent out (I do not know if the forum permits this) then that may help.

The system obviously holds all the emails that members have registered with but I don't think that there is a way of bulk mailing folks and this wouldn't be fair anyway, many as you mention have moved on and probably wouldn't welcome the contact.

However one of the moderating tools is the ability to make a 'forum announcement' which is displayed for a chosen period of time (though I can't remember where or how this is shown!)

In 9 days you will have the ability to pm so if you would like to compose something in the meantime & then send it to me I can post it up with the likelihood that all currently active members will see it

[Mr B]

Understood.

Now my prior life forum experiences suggest that forums can "vote" but that will offer very limited functionality.

Putting this out to www.surveymonkey.com on such a sensitive subject I do have concerns about. Who would not?

Perhaps there is a way...

Create the questions on an "innocent" subject, say a civil legal case (border dispute say). Get the survey put out, populated & pull the results back in on that "stalking horse subject"

Just a thought...

What is the user population that has been active over 3 months - 10, 100, 1000 individual accounts? If it is modest it can be done manually. Prior life had 4500 hence survey monkey was the tool to execute.

Mr B

[Franticwithworry]

Thank you for the link. Will review.

I will have a good think.

Re mental health issues driving false allegations. I would suggest that NPD/BPD contribute to explaining why an FA was made by my wife, however the do not excuse it in any manner whatsoever. In the 6 months I have been analysing my own situation, this has been made very very clear by www.shrink4men.com.

Whilst it is not applicable to all cases may I commend Dr Tara J. Palmatier who can be reached at admin@shrink4men.com

The understanding I (belatedly) developed explains why this event came to pass. If I can understand why, then I can accept the reality & move on. Moving on means making sure the next nice naïve & non-confrontational character does not suffer my fate so easily. Fighting to see my daughter too & stop the FA repeating the same circle of life experiences that is being re-created (deliberately stopping there as people may become identifiable)

It really is hard being being hit twice (FA & Divorce based on the FA) twice in these circumstances. I deliberately have not used the word victim to maintain the clarity of the definition. No crime has been identified.

I appreciate the inertia on getting things like a survey going. However if it is open to all, then over a 3 month time frame I would suggest we will get all the likely respondents. If an email was sent out (I do not know if the forum permits this) then that may help. I would suggest 20 considered responses would give a good initial steer. Just my thoughts though...

Kindest regards
Mr B

Thank you for the link to shrink4men. I will take a look. I don't mean in any way to discourage you from acting, simply to point out a reason why results may be slower than you might like.

I don't know if an email would be permitted, but failing that, a poll might work instead. Asking people if the mind being contacted through the Private message system might be an alternative too. Then no-one is contacted who hasn't asked to be. As a new member, it's a few days before the private message kicks in for you but I'd be happy to help you or look over questions for you in the background, as it were, if you like.

It must be devastating to lose your wife, daughter, marriage and home in such a destructive way. Sadly, you are not alone in this, and it's good that you have been able to look at your situation over the last few months and glean some understanding, even though it doesn't put back the clock or change anything.

I have some experience of PAS too. Have you come across Dr Craig Childress? He is American, but his work is very interesting. He has a website which you will find if you search online for his name.

Though, as I said, I'm concerned about anonymity for myself at the moment, I am, like you, determined to explore all avenues for change when this ordeal is over. That said, there are many on the forum who are much further along the road than I who are likely to pop in and see your posts in the next few days. I hope that between us all we can gather some data and get this ball rolling.

With very best wishes.

[Casehardened]

Just a thought...

What is the user population that has been active over 3 months - 10, 100, 1000 individual accounts? If it is modest it can be done manually. Prior life had 4500 hence survey monkey was the tool to execute.

Mr B

We may disappoint, today's figure is 5 members and 20 guests, this is about average for the last month

[Mr B]

Thank you both. I will have a think & see what I can come up with...

Thinking cap "engaged" - just wish I did not have to double de-clutch.

Mr B

[Franticwithworry]

Thank you both. I will have a think & see what I can come up with...

Thinking cap "engaged" - just wish I did not have to double de-clutch.

Mr B

I'm glad that you've managed to hold on to your sense of humour.